Dexter: 0:18

Thank you. Stay connected with the latest news, updates, events and more right at your fingertips. Download Masonica today and join the growing network of brethren across New Zealand. And now welcome to the Masonic Mic, where we tune into the frequency of Freemasonry sharing insights, stories and conversations that illuminate the craft here and beyond.

Reuben: 0:46

Well, today, folks, we've got a very, very dear friend of mine whom is new to Freemasonry, and I'm excited to have him on here, because in the past we've had a few Masons on board and they are of grand status.

Dan: 1:04

That's right. We've had past masters, members of Grand Lodge, worshipful masters, but today we've got a fellow craft.

Reuben: 1:13

Yeah, and so it's amazing to have this person on. I'm very pleased to have him and I'd like to say hello, yachty. How are you doing? Hi guys, very well, thank you, thanks for having me, thank you, thanks for being on board. And so what does it mean to be? So? He's a new Freemason.

Reuben: 1:29

Yes, so, being a new Freemason, we've got a few questions that we'd like to ask, and first off, I'd like to say that I actually proposed you. So for the listeners who don't know, I actually know you. I've known you outside of Lodge before you joined for some time, probably about five years or so, and I mentioned five years ago that I was a Mason and you sort of took that on board and that was about it, and then we didn't speak anything of it until recently. Well, recently, in the last year or so, you sort of spoke to me about it. You started making questions you know, asking questions about it. From then I knew that we could. Then you know that was what you were wanting to do. So welcome again, and would you be able to tell our listeners as to what made you want to become a Freemason?

Yotti: 2:21

Yeah, that's a good question. I think a lot of it. I mean to be honest with you. I've known about Freemasonry and I'm sure like quite a lot of other people out there either, from like the Simpsons or things you hear on the internet or things like you know, like that's just modern day, just absolutely. Yep, some sort of freaky secret society? Yep, I've got the birthmark, by the way, do you? I've got the birthmark?

Dan: 2:50

I'd love to see that, would you?

Yotti: 2:57

But that was my initial, I'm sure. Like everybody else, that's what I initially thought of it. Yep, and then along came this fellow Reuben Fisher into my life quite a few years ago and some really light conversations started and I was intrigued from the get-go and, fortunately enough for myself, I had like a font of knowledge in Reuben here who would Reuben, honestly, I did not pay you to say that. I wasn't paid to say that, but he was looking at me, but I'm going to give you 20 bucks after this he is a big, big gentleman and he's looking right at me.

Yotti: 3:33

I just want to make that clear. But no, I had Ruben, you know, as a good friend of mine, you know, would you know answer things here and there and as I know you know as much as he possibly could without giving away anything. And I kept probing and probing and it took a few years, took a good couple of years, from initial talks and then we finally got to the point where I felt I was ready. Ruben felt I was ready to take the next step. And here we are today, or over a year in now.

Reuben: 4:10

Over a year in. Yeah, amazing. And I could probably tell you did right. I can tell when you were ready and when you're not ready, if I could say, if I could be so bold as to say myself when I felt that you were ready, yeah, there was just a feeling, there was just an idea that you were ready for it. The questioning sort of came to the point where it was like okay, now I've finished asking all those questions, now it's time to delve in.

Dan: 4:34

Would you say, Ruben, that it was the kind of questions that he was asking, that you went ha-ha.

Reuben: 4:42

Yeah, it was the type of question that had come after all of the other ones, so all of the general questions that normally come from someone who is not ready to okay, that's a different level of question. Okay, now you've got that understanding under your belt and then you go to the next level of question, because obviously you have got those questions answered. So now you're ready for the next level. And I knew he was at the next level, I knew he was ready to be able to come in and he's been absolutely wonderful, he's been great, he's been an attentive learner and so, yeah, I'm very pleased, I'm very proud of having initiated well, of putting him up. And so what was your, what would have been your first impressions of the lodge and of the fraternity as a whole? So, if you can imagine, from what you thought of to what you experienced coming in that first time coming in, how has that changed? Is that different?

Yotti: 5:39

Yes, absolutely Coming in, you have. Obviously I had a good friend of mine helping me with the process to become involved in the lodge, so that kind of put my mind at ease in terms of any of the stereotypes that you hear about things. But upon entering the lodge and being like before initiation and after initiation, it was like night and day, Obviously everybody's friendly. I had actually come to a refractory beforehand, for was it an installation?

Reuben: 6:19

Yeah, I think that was for an installation. I think it was for. So installation is when a new master takes over the lodge and I think you came along to the refractory part, part which, for those who don't know what refractory is, it's the dinner side of the whole of the lodge. So the the ritual happened, the ceremony, and you weren't allowed in the ceremony, but you're allowed to come in as my visitor into the refractory which was into the after dinner, the dinner meal. So that was your first tank. Oh, tell us about that.

Yotti: 6:43

Yeah, it was. That was great, that was lovely. It was. Everybody was friendly, welcoming. It was interesting to see you know how the toasts are done and kind of the procedure during refractory. For me it was. I've had reasonably formal education, so sitting down at a hall, you know, saying grace and that kind of stuff. It's not too unfamiliar to me. So it was really lovely to sit and be amongst that. I enjoyed that.

Yotti: 7:15

But fast forwarding ahead to after initiation, I was completely blown away by the brotherhood once you become a brother. All these strangers, all these strangers and admittedly you know we're talking a lot of people over 60 years old, a lot of people have been retired longer than I've been alive, and all of these people coming up to me, wishing me well, wishing me good luck, welcoming me as if I'd been part of the family the whole time. That blew me, that blew me away and it still blows me away today. The actual brotherhood of Masonry is outstanding. It's a big part of it, isn't it? It's so lovely, it really is. It's so nice to come when we do come, even no matter what kind of day I've had on the day, I know, to get into my kit and come to Lodge. I feel just so much better afterwards. It's just a lovely light part of your life, full of warm, nice people that actually care about you, and I just don't know where else you'd find that today, especially for young men.

Reuben: 8:24

That's interesting and it's a sincere kind of love. It's not the false, obligated to be friendly kind of friendliship, brotherhood. They're actually genuinely, genuinely sincere about that love that they've got for you, which is what I find as well.

Dan: 8:42

You actually see the excitement in their eyes. Oh, you do, oh you do oh you're back again. How are you doing? Oh yeah, Shaking your hand.

Reuben: 8:51

My only problem is not having enough time to be able to talk to everybody and give everybody the same amount of attention as I've given one person, because then there'll be another guy that will come on and go, oh I want to talk to you as well, and then the night's over. So, yeah, there is that, but they're genuine. They genuinely want to know about you and how you are doing, and so I find that as well. Another great thing, and so your first impression was when you came to that dinner, when you came to Reflectory. So then, once you did your first degree, once you did the first degree, did anything change from that feeling, from that same similar feeling that you had?

Yotti: 9:33

in other words, yeah, yes, it was. It went from being polite and respectful and everyone greeting you to actually feeling the love of the brotherhood, like to feel that wave of sincerity and, you know, welcomeness and inclusivity. That all changed. That was a huge, that was an immediate change for me, like noticeable, straight out the gate. Wow, we want you to do well. We want you to do well. Yep, no one's trying to catch you out here. No one's trying to catch you out here. Everyone wants you to succeed in masonry and welcome to the journey. Yep, and this is a lifelong journey and, yeah, it's just. I can't speak highly enough of that aspect of it. It truly is something special.

Reuben: 10:23

So that really did make an impression on your mind. Then obviously, Absolutely.

Dan: 10:28

And, being that Ruben was your proposer as well, he's also, I guess, in the position to be a mentor of yours as well. So, if you had those questions, obviously you had plenty of questions prior to joining, but, as I know, there's plenty of questions at all points in the Masonic career, isn't there? So Ruben would be a good person to go to isn't he?

Yotti: 10:53

Yeah, ruben's been great. I would. I seriously. He's really made the journey, Masonic journey for me thus far. I think that you know that all young initiates should have somebody of that ilk to guide them, somebody who can answer those questions, who can just give you assurances when you're unsure, check in on you. That has really made the whole thing for me and I sincerely wish that everybody could have one of those with them. It just it would.

Reuben: 11:35

It would make it.

Reuben: 11:35

Yeah, it would definitely make it in the darkness, because you are, you're coming into it alone as a young man.

Reuben: 11:40

You're coming into this fraternity where you hear a lot of stuff about it and I guess having someone there like a bigger brother essentially a big brother or, you know, like a father figure or a mentor or just a comrade or you know that other person to help you, guide you through that, because it is pretty scary, it is pretty a daunting thing, and I mean, we'll get to what your family think of it as well, and also that's another whole thing when you've got family in your ear as well.

Reuben: 12:05

So to have somebody there with you on that journey, I think, is what you're saying, isn't it, yachty is that you've got someone on your side and if things get because you can't really question sometimes you wouldn't be able to question people in the lodge like the wishful mass and go hey, just stop the meeting for a minute, I just want of word with you. You know it's kind of there's a time and a place, so having somebody outside of those, you know, those times is quite measurable. And, yeah, I'd like to think that everybody does have a mentor, because that's what you. I think that that's what you really want to have. Otherwise, you'll fall off.

Dan: 12:39

I've said it before, I'll say it again I think mentorship is one of the biggest things in Freemasonry for me. Yeah, everyone's different, of course, but I get a lot of value out of that. You know these men of all ages and demographics right. So who knows what you're going to learn?

Reuben: 12:58

it's education, absolutely it's amazing when you sit down with someone you've never really spoken to and then you start talking to them and listen to their story and you're blown away. There's just gems waiting to be uncovered in that. So back to you, Yachty. Could you describe the process of your initiation and what's it meant to you personally, without divulging any so-called secrets? So what the process of initiation meant and what did it mean to you to be initiated?

Yotti: 13:32

Put it that way yeah, I think that it means a lot. It means a lot. Obviously, there's a lot of caution. Trepidation isn't the unknown. I mean, it's all unknown actually at the start, as you guys know.

Reuben: 13:49

Even though I was your mentor and I was talking to you. It's part of the thing not to say anything. It's not that you can't.

Yotti: 13:57

No, that actually made it better actually, that whole element of surprise, not knowing. Looking around at everybody, you know the whole thing. You will never go through anything like that. That's one of the nights of my life.

Reuben: 14:14

So you've never experienced anything like it. Nothing touches it.

Yotti: 14:17

Nothing touches it, nothing comes close to it. That is, there are moments in your life you might get a handful, you might get 10 moments in your life, and that one, that one, there was definitely up there. I remember coming home to my partner and just absolutely beaming, buzzing like wide awake, yeah, yeah, she's in bed and I just I couldn't even you have to bow the feet, Wake up, wake up. It's me. Something like that, Dan, Something like that, and I just I can still feel it inside of me, that so much like happiness and light and positivity inside of me just bursting out of me and obviously not being able to say very much about what happened on the night. But yeah, it was one of the nights of my life Unforgettable, Absolutely unforgettable.

Reuben: 15:12

So it was a visceral experience that you will never forget, and that it was, yeah, you'll never, ever forget, and you've never had anything like it, and so it changed. Everything changed after there, didn't it? It was a turning point for you, from being an outsider to maybe being a bit of part of you know, part of something.

Yotti: 15:28

Absolutely part of something I mean going from. It's literally going from an outsider to an insider. So it was, even though there are steps along the way. After the first, after that first night, you're I always disagree with that.

Reuben: 15:42

I always say you're either. I don't reckon there is in the round.

Reuben: 15:45

I reckon there's only one, one degree in Freemasonry to me. I know that doesn't sound right, but in my opinion there is. You're either. You're either R-Mason or you're not, and that one is the first degree. So you know, people go oh it's the Master Mason, it's the 33rd, nah, so you're at home and you're beaming. I think I actually felt you. I think I could hear you at about two in the morning still going on, because I was asleep and I thought, and then you were saying to me you were still buzzing. So you're at home, so you've got a family. So let's talk a little bit about that. How have they taken Freemasonry?

Yotti: 16:21

That's been an interesting thing. That's been an interesting. That's been an interesting thing in my life. I'm come from, I'm a Greek separate family, quite a religious Greek separate family, reasonably conservative upbringing. So it's been. I was quite clear and up front. I wasn't hiding anything. I wasn't also advertising it freely amongst the family, but I'd worn the pin to a few events that drew a few comments, especially from the matriarch of my family. My grandmother wasn't very happy about it, which was quite interesting to me. She wasn't happy no, she wasn't happy at all, and that's just because of all the connotations associated with Freemasonry historically. I had a good chat with her and kind of cleared the air with her and she's definitely come around Again. These are just instant reactions when she saw the pin on my lapel. So that was interesting. That's all been straightened out now and that's all in the past.

Yotti: 17:33

Now my partner also, she had her, yeah, she had her difficulties at the start because she could see there was something going on in my life that was having a profound effect on me that she was not involved in whatsoever and I couldn't involve her. And also, I don't know enough. I didn't know enough and I still don't know enough about it to know what to say. Like, I know a little bit more obviously now, but at the time I played it safe and I can't really say anything to you because I'm really not sure, and I'm still not even sure, what actually happened to me that night. Like it just it takes such a long time to calm down from that.

Yotti: 18:15

And you know when you're involved, you know when you've got somebody in your life that you know you spend a lot of time with and then all of a sudden there's something extracurricular going on that they don't have any involvement in. And not only that, they don't really have any idea what's really going on. And they know they're not really allowed to know what's going on. There were some conversations had for sure and, um, luckily, time as time rolls on and she sees the effect that it has on me and also she's in the fam. We've been to family, family like christmas events here she gets to see what's going on here. Her attitude has changed right a lot, which has been really good.

Dan: 18:58

So would you say in the beginning it was more than a bit of FOMO, Like they were like, oh, he's off doing something and we're not involved. It was more like what is this that he is doing? And they were worried about the unknown.

Yotti: 19:12

Absolutely Well. My grandmother was like this is not right. My grandmother was like this is not right, oh. My grandmother was like this is not right. You shouldn't be doing this. That was where Cher was coming from, and my partner was like what are you doing?

Reuben: 19:30

And that's a fair question. Imagine if our wives came to us and said I'm going to this place once a month, you're not going to know where it is, you're not going to know what I'm doing and I can't tell you, and it's going to cost some money, don't ask questions. I'd be the same. I'd be like what, what is this thing you're going to If their wives can't tell us? So I guess that's when, I think, you rung me up and I had a conversation with her as well and we kind of tried to get our wives together to kind of nut out what exactly it is. Because you're right, you didn't have enough, you didn't really know enough to say and I didn't really know what to say. You know what can you say to someone? What is you know that you can openly say about it? Who's asking you questions? It was a very valid concern and I mean, luckily she's come around to the point where she's got an understanding, because you kind of want to include her, and I think this is part of what the new masonry is trying to do. We're trying to get the families involved. We're trying to break away from having the man of the house take off once a month and then come back.

Reuben: 20:37

I know the story of my granddad. When he would, my nana thought that he was having an affair for years because he'd jump out the window and he was going to lodge and so she knew nothing of it those days. I think we have to put them behind us and we have to somehow make the Freemasonry a hell of a lot more transparent if we're going to make it, because one of the major sayings is you've got to have what comes first is your family, then your job and then Freemasonry. Now, if those two things aren't sorted out in the first place, the Freemasonry is going to struggle, and we see this a lot with these young guys and they've got family obligations and they want to come here.

Reuben: 21:14

I mean, I know some of the older gentlemen, especially one of the guys who proposed to me. He had three sons and he had a wife and he was also in a high government job and he was also highly in the lodge as well, quite high up, and he said he lost his family because of the lodge, you know, and his boys hated the lodge because he was always at the lodge and he also had to be at work. So it was either lodge or work for him, and he said to me, he said always make sure the first two are sorted, because otherwise Freemasonry, will you know, it'll suffer. And so you've managed to be able to what curtail your family, be able to convince them otherwise, or have they just seen from what it's done to you personally? So, in that respect then, has Freemasonry changed your principles, and how have they changed your principles, or how has it changed you as a man?

Yotti: 22:09

Yes, I'd say it has changed my principles and I've definitely changed as a man, slowly. There's no drastic changes but, honestly, just growth as a man is something that's I can't pinpoint exactly. I can't give you the five reasons why I've grown as a man over the last year, but it has happened. It has happened through spending time with brothers from, like you said, dan, all different denominations, all different ages, people that have been retired long, that have been alive To sit and to have a tolerance is another huge one there it is.

Dan: 22:57

I was going to ask you.

Yotti: 22:58

Yeah, and that's a big one, and it's all good things are coming out of this. That's actually it. There's all good things coming out of this thing.

Reuben: 23:10

So you haven't seen any of the negative stereotypes. You've seen none of them. The goats and all the sacrifices and all that kind of jazz None of that's happened.

Yotti: 23:20

None of that's happened. I don't know if I could say this now, but I'm a reasonably religious man myself. Yeah, okay, and I've seen none of that whatsoever. There's been nothing there that's going to question my faith. There's only, like I'll reiterate, only good things have come out of my time in masonry and only good things will follow, and the more work that I put into it, the more good things are going to happen.

Dan: 23:48

That's right, and you would say that Freemasonry isn't a replacement for your religion. You're clearly still quite a religious man. That's right. It's not a replacement, is it?

Yotti: 24:00

Not at all Good. It was a concern coming in Yep, it was, and I've been able to, within reason, talk to some of the brothers about it as well, as it's come up naturally and it's all kind of been cleared up. And not only that. Like I've just seen nothing, nothing that would give me any reason to think otherwise, and that goes as well for my family and my partner as well. Over time they've just seen whatever things that you thought it was. It's just not happening.

Reuben: 24:34

So why do you think those things are about? What do you think those negative things? Is it just because they want to make up stuff about something they don't know?

Yotti: 24:46

Yeah, I think so. That's an interesting question and I have talked to a few of the older brothers about it and I think that, yeah, I think possibly that might be as simple as that is that people don't know what it is, so they just make up any old thing. Make up any old thing. They might be threatened. There could be people threatened by it.

Reuben: 25:06

Because I've heard some doozies. I've heard some doozies and I've got to be honest, when I first looked into it, I was looking forward to some of those crazy, crazy things, and not one of them, not an inkling, has ever, ever come true. And then I see people go, yeah, well, you would say that and I'm like, well, you ought to have just said that, because that's literally what has happened. You know, we don't have the key to the city, we're not lizards and all this stuff, and I mean sure, there's some sort of corruptness going on, going on, sure, on some small level, but that's the same as every other group of humans. You get good cops, bad cops, and so it's just interesting why Freemasonry has been the crux of so many conspiratorial theories, so that it puts off a lot of these young people and their families.

Dan: 25:53

Do you have any answers to that? Do you think I?

Yotti: 25:54

do not have the answers to that. I don't know if you are yeah, I Do. You have any answers to that? Do you think I do not have the answers to that? I don't know if you are yeah, I don't have the answers to that, but it is true. That's what people think. People think that we're out there bathing in goat's blood, doing all sorts of weird stuff. It's all about money, it's all about business. You know all satanic, all the satanic ritual and all that kind of stuff I've heard, you know, I've heard quite a lot of it, and that was. It's just not there, everybody. Sorry to say it, it's just not there.

Reuben: 26:24

Well, I love the ones when they come back and say, well, nah, hang on a minute, you're only a fellow craft, you wouldn't know.

Dan: 26:31

You know you're not a 33rd. Oh, you're not a 33rd.

Reuben: 26:33

Well, actually we're going to have a 33rd on at some stage, and so he'll be able to come in and dispel all of those people who are not even a mason, who can say you're not a real 33rd and all that. And look, maybe there is some club somewhere that call themselves the Freemasons, that run and do all that crazy stuff. It sure isn't any of us anyways, but it is interesting, and so how would you describe your role in the lodge as a new member?

Yotti: 27:05

How would you describe yourself as being a new lodge member? I would describe myself well. I'd say my role is one of modesty and hum like humbleness. I'm trying to learn and take in everything as much as I possibly can. There's no pressure from anybody to learn things, to do the reading, or, you know, there's no pressure from anybody. Like I said, everybody wants you to do well and so my role is. I just feel like I'm just going with what's coming towards me, taking on what people are saying, and I have improved and I have grown in Freemasonry and that just seems to be working. I try to help out as much as I can, be polite and respectful, and that's pretty much where I see I see. What I do see is that I see there's a lot ahead of me.

Dan: 28:09

Are you interested in earning any charges or taking office at any time?

Yotti: 28:13

Perhaps in the future. I have done one charge, oh yeah, and that was the Less lights. Oh, good one. Yeah, it's a nice one. Yeah, it's a nice one, Nice little wee one to get me going, and that was, yeah, that was another experience. That was another experience in Freemasonry for me that I won't forget.

Dan: 28:33

That one Great to know Fellowcraft is doing it. They're not sort of waiting for a Master Mason to do it.

Reuben: 28:43

No, I think it's brilliant, and I think there's a lot of the other denominations, or the Filipinos particularly. They have got their take on how the charges should be done, and so when we say charges to those who don't understand, it's basically like a public speech, a speech, and so I would say that that's one of the core, one of the core teachings of Freemasonry is public speaking, and that's how it's bettering a person is by having them to do public speaking, and that's how it's bettering a person is by having them to do some public speaking, because one of the biggest fears is usually public speaking, and so to make someone better in themselves, addressing people, communicating in society, would be to do a charge.

Dan: 29:32

Exposure therapy.

Reuben: 29:33

Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah, yeah, inoculation and so, yeah. So we got your Exposure therapy yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah, yeah, inoculation and so, okay, and so we had, so you've been able to do a charge, so that's great. So then that begs the question then, what are you looking for in the future? What do you think is the future for Yachty the Freemason regarding the lodge?

Yotti: 29:54

I don't know. What would you like to see?

Reuben: 29:56

happen. Do you want to be the grand fubar? What are you thinking? Looking forward, what do you think?

Yotti: 30:03

I want to get as much knowledge as I possibly can. I want to learn as much as I possibly can.

Reuben: 30:09

Does that happen in the lodge? Do you think?

Yotti: 30:16

Yes, definitely, but there's a lot of work outside of the lodge, like it happens in the lodge, because you've got all the minds here, all the experience here, right, um, all at one place at one time. But, um, honestly, I think it's your whole life. You need to be living and walking. If you're living walking, if you're living walking, freemason like you're pretty good, you don't you'll, you'll be doing pretty good If you're thirsty for knowledge, treating other people with kindness and respect and as brothers within as much as you can in society, if you live by the tenets of Freemasonry as a man, society is going to be good.

Yotti: 30:49

And young men, young men need this stuff. Couldn't agree more. They need it, especially now, especially the way the culture is for young men and young women. But society needs strong, confident, respectful young men that can lead society, lead their families. That's what you need. And Freemasonry that can lead society, lead their families, that's what you need. And Freemasonry is it, that is it. And, yes, it's not for everybody, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but, like I said before, there is only good things happen. It is a peculiar system, isn't it?

Dan: 31:34

It is. Oh, where's the button? Where's?

Reuben: 31:37

the button. Where's the button? Have you got?

Dan: 31:38

it.

Yotti: 31:38

Do you have?

Reuben: 31:42

one That'll do. It is a peculiar system. It is very peculiar, and so what would be your advice for any newcomer, any other newcomer coming into this? What would be your advice?

Yotti: 31:59

Keep an open mind for a start. Come in ready for something that you probably haven't experienced before. Talk a lot with your mentor. Your mentor is really the one your proposer. I would expect nobody would be proposed without the person being ready for it in the first place. And obviously there are steps. There are steps before you get to the initiation stage. Who? Second you by the way, dean, oh Dino Dino, yeah, yeah.

Dan: 32:35

Yeah.

Reuben: 32:36

Yeah, we had a coffee, we had a beverage down at the corner here, we had a couple of ales down at the old pub here, carlton, yeah, and so, yeah, dino, and he's another one we have on board as well. We will, he's another good rooster, yeah, and so what would you, sorry, what would your advice be to any of the younger?

Yotti: 33:01

yeah, just keep, keep it up in mind. And if you want to do better in your life, and if you want to do better mentally, physically, spiritually, if you're looking for stimulation, if you, if you I don't know, if you're a little bit, if you I don't even know how to describe what it is until you're in it, but again, like you will be better.

Reuben: 33:26

So who would you advise not to join up? Who would the ones that you know? Who do you think should not join Freemasonry?

Yotti: 33:33

Well, it's a you know, I'd say people that aren't very stable in their life either. You don't have stable work going on, you don't have a stable home, life partner or things like that. You know, I'd say it's probably. You know, it's probably might not be on one side of it, it might not be for you, but then on the other side of it you probably need it more than anybody actually to have that stability, that Freemasonry, and to have that course correction, that Freemasonry and to have that course correction that Freemasonry might be able to provide you. Yeah, yeah.

Yotti: 34:03

So that's an interesting wee thing there. But I think any young man seeking to improve himself it's for you. If you want to talk about going to the gym and eating properly and fasting and doing all these cool things that are supposed to be good for your health and wellbeing and that kind of stuff, that's all great and it does work. But this Freemasonry is for good young men, good middle-aged men and good older men, and it is for the male that's seeking to improve himself and to have a better life and to also impart the benefits of that better life to other people around him.

Reuben: 34:42

And what would you say to the partners or the friends of those who are wanting to become Freemasons? What would you advise them? To the partners.

Yotti: 34:50

Can you just repeat that? So what would?

Reuben: 34:51

you say yeah. So to the partners of guys that are wanting to join, that are saying they're keen to join this thing called Freemasonry, what would you advise their friends or their parents of the guys that want to join?

Yotti: 35:05

I would. Your son, nephew, brother, whoever might be your next door neighbour, will be better. It's good for him. It's going to be good for him. If you can follow through with what Freemasonry provides you and teaches you, that person will be better off and then, as a result, you'll be better off by being around that person. That's just facts.

Dan: 35:29

The tagline is making good men better, isn't it?

Reuben: 35:32

Well, that's the ultimate goal, I think wasn't it is to make good men better and yeah.

Reuben: 35:37

I mean, I've always thought it as being a very, very clever self-help system. It's pretty much what you put in is what you get out, and you know you can join, and then you sort of sit on the sideline and you know you don't interact with these older guys who've got all this knowledge. Then you don't get anything from it. You know, if you get involved in it and you start to see the benefits of it, you start to get active in the community, because we've got a massive community programs, there's charity, there's charitable organizations, there's so many of those social aspects of it. And if you get involved in them, like they were saying, birds of a feather flock together, and if you lay down with dogs, you get fleas. So you are who your friends are, and if you're associating with people that are good, ultimately you think that you'd end up it'd rub off on you, wouldn't it? Yep.

Yotti: 36:29

I might just jump in there for a second. In terms of the charitable aspect of things, that's another massive. I wouldn't even say it's a misconception, it's just a total unknown for people outside of Freemasonry.

Reuben: 36:40

Really.

Yotti: 36:40

Yeah.

Dan: 36:41

Yeah absolutely.

Yotti: 36:42

That was a surprise for me, coming in the whole charitable arm of Freemasonry, wow, so you didn't realise? Absolutely no idea. Absolutely no idea about anything to do with Freemasonry and charities and scholarships Wow, that blows me away, yeah, and any of that kind of stuff, I mean, and that flies in the face of what the misconceptions on Freemasonry are as well. It's the exact opposite. It's supposed to be some satanic, weird, freaky society and, in actual fact, the charitable arm of Freemasonry is immense and it would surprise a lot of people to know that.

Reuben: 37:21

Well, it's huge, not only in New Zealand. I think it's around about $30 million a year that we've sort of got. But in the States they donate $3 million a day Gosh, $3 million a day to charities. So it's over a billion dollars a year that United States of American Freemasons donate to charity. That's bringing in. That's considering the Shriner Hospitals, so I've got hospitals that are dedicated to it. Even New Zealand we've got. We have the rest homes. We sponsor the Nelson's Boys and the Nelson's Girls College We've got. Yeah, that is one of the biggest things and it's interesting that you didn't know anything about that beforehand. That blows me away.

Yotti: 38:06

Yeah, and I think that you know, going forward and just seeing what I've seen in the lodge in my one year one year and a little bit being there, you know it would be nice for that message to get out to people. It would be good, it would be good for the message, the brotherhood message and the self-improvement message to get out to people, to get out to young men. They need it more than ever in 2025. Dan, I'm sure you see the brunt of it in your line of work. I do indeed, yeah, and I just think that I don't know, I don't have the answer to it, but, for goodness sake, like there's a lot of good things going on in these lodges that people should be knowing about and people should know about.

Reuben: 38:53

I think you're right. I think that's part of the old school. The old school was just very quiet. You know the whole silence thing was taken. You know literally which some of it should be, but I think they took it a little bit too far and they don't. Now. We need to really be more transparent about it and say look, you know, we've got these scholarships, we've got this, we're there to help, and I think that's what we're trying to do. I think that's what Freemasonry as a whole was trying to actually do is become more transparent.

Dan: 39:18

Yeah, we're always very subtle about the work that we do.

Reuben: 39:21

Yeah, there's a difference between doing charitable work for the sake of doing charitable work, bragging about it, and bragging about it and I think that's the other point is we kind of don't want to just go yeah, look, we did it, you know. Well, look at us, we're amazing. It a bit more subtle. That's interesting that you didn't you know. I'm fascinated. What other things didn't you know? Or possibly Was there anything else that you didn't realise that the Freemasons did?

Yotti: 39:49

I think that just the more time that I spend, the more that I get surprised as to what Freemasonry is about. But I think you know just the stuff that I've already mentioned about what the things that I've learned during Freemasonry I would. You guys know better. You guys know better than myself. However, there must be a way to be able to communicate some of the positives of Freemasonry to the younger generations coming in. There's a big, massive age difference between, massive age difference between a lot of the members.

Reuben: 40:25

Can we say that for our listeners? So I'm coming up to half a century. So how old are you then, if I can say that, Yachty?

Yotti: 40:31

I'm 39 years old, so you're 39.

Reuben: 40:33

So what would you reckon? And how old are you, Dan? You're like 75? Yeah, thereabouts.

Dan: 40:37

Well, at least I feel that way, but I think technically I'm 44.

Reuben: 40:41

So you're 44. So yeah, so we're sort of the 30, 40. So you'd say that we're kind of the younger.

Yotti: 40:48

Absolutely, we would be the younger ones in there and there's nothing. And I've learned so much and I know there is so much to learn from the older brothers for sure, and that's another aspect of Freemasonry. That surprised me is that when I'm sitting in there in the lodge or I'm at refractory and there's 80 and 90 year old people all around me and you're just looking around and you're thinking shivers.

Yotti: 41:14

I think shivers what happens if somebody falls over here you're checking where the defib is and then you sit down and you what happens if somebody falls over here? You take them where the defib is and then you sit down and you talk to these people and you're just absolutely blown away by how easy it is to talk, how friendly they are. And then on top of that, the stories and the knowledge and the history is just jaw-dropping.

Reuben: 41:40

Do you have a particular one in mind that you can recall at the moment, without saying any names and any stories? Yes, I do. I do the.

Yotti: 41:45

Outer Guard. The Outer Guard. Can I say that I don't know if I can say that the Outer Guard is an older gentleman.

Reuben: 41:51

He must be 90-odd years old, I'm pretty sure there or thereabouts He'll be a bit nice to him. I think he's probably coming up to around. He's a bit younger than that. Okay, he's in his 80s, he's in his 80s, he's in his 80s, he's in his 80s.

Yotti: 42:01

We'll say that, and I remember sitting outside it's first degree because I can't be in there for a lot of the time. So I'm sitting outside and I'm thinking to myself. I've got 80-year-old man who's sitting there and you know looking quite bright and that. So I decided to go up and talk to him and I tell you what. What would normally be quite a boring time for me, sitting outside of the lodge, turned into like oh shivers, like do I need to go back in now?

Yotti: 42:32

Because I was like listening to this old bugger right now and he is spinning me some yarns that you just that, are just like you couldn't make it up, yeah, and it just blows your mind and you don't know what or who you're talking to.

Yotti: 42:46

But these people, like all, it is like knocking the door open, like just honestly seeking your find. Just ask questions and all the information is there. But you need to take the step, you need to go towards it. No one's going to give it to you, no one's holding things back from you, but you need to go and ask. Go and ask some questions, and that's another aspect of Freemasonry that's good for young men. Go and take the initial step, take a chance, and here, when you take the chance, good things happen.

Reuben: 43:22

So do you find that it would help the guys, Because most of the people nowadays it's all instant. Do you get that instant gratification, or is there still a part of it that is you know?

Yotti: 43:33

Yeah, you do. You get the instant gratification because you take a chance in the first place. So you take a risk to go and talk to somebody in a normal situation in life that might not work out for you, so you get that gratification straight away. But what also becomes very clear to you is how vast and how long this journey is, and that's exciting. That's something that you're going to. That's a lifelong journey and I'm not. I don't think there's anything else like that out there. I know I'm turning 40 now. Obviously, I've got my family at home, I've got a business to run. There's a lot of things that are going to last for a long time in my life, but this year, Freemasonry the way that I see these 90-year-olds stand up and give 10-minute it seems like 10-minute charges. Yep, yep, it's just, it's astounding.

Reuben: 44:29

I don't think you ever get tired of seeing someone do a really good charge. That's about 16 pages long and you're like, wow, you look at the guy and you go, wow, that is amazing. I don't think that ever gets old.

Dan: 44:42

And you can see the same charge be given by several different brethren and they all have their own little spin, whether they use their hands and gesticulate more than the other guy, or point or use their voice to make emphasis.

Yotti: 45:00

Dan, it's not just reading off a piece of paper. Oh yeah, it is like I just want to make clear to the listeners these are 90-year-old men who are animated while they're talking and keep you engaged while they're talking and using, like you know, the tempered cadence and like, oh, it's just amazing. And people I'm looking around the room and especially to like the younger masons, like what is this, like what is actually going on here, just looking around in amazement and it is inspiring and it's a lesson, isn't it? Totally, totally, who, 90 years old, still driving around and still giving, you know, still essentially giving a 10 minute speech off the cuff? Or you know, the gentleman, the out of guard gentleman, walking up, walking into a charge the night of and said he hadn't given that charge for over 40 years again, longer than my life, okay, and he steps up and needed like only a couple of corrections in a five or seven minute charge and that just blew my mind and it's like how is that not good for you, how is that not good for a man?

Reuben: 46:09

Yeah, Well, they reckon it keeps their mind sharp, and that's the thing. And by keeping it sharp it really does, and it keeps these older gentlemen really, really sharp. And so would you like to aspire to that. Is that something you'd like to be? Is that to you? Is that a form of perfection? Is that where you want to be in?

Yotti: 46:24

life absolutely, um, absolutely is. But that will that come? That that's not going to, that's not around the corner. Yeah, I mean you're talking about 89 years old.

Reuben: 46:34

I mean, you've got a way where to go. But that's basically what you kind of, what we're kind of aspiring to and that's what you kind of want to get out of. Freemasonry is not just the because I understand, it's not just the fact that they are reading it word for word. They actually understand it. So there's a difference between reading things from a page to actually having that stuff inculcated into your persona, and so that's basically part of that teaching. That would be making you a better person if you actually understood what was on those pages and inculcated it into your own personality.

Yotti: 47:05

That helped me a lot. The understanding I had my mentor is not a bad fella actually helped me out quite a lot when I needed to learn a couple of bits and pieces for what I needed to learn. And once I had the, I could learn. I could read off a piece of paper and I could learn words, okay, memorize them, yeah. But once I had that layer of understanding of why I might be saying these things, what these words actually mean, I've got a fairly decent grasp of the English language. I thought I was like pretty well educated. And then I come into Freemasonry and I'm like what are we?

Reuben: 47:45

Oh, this is the William Shakespeare of freaking languages.

Yotti: 47:50

And that's I mean, that's another. There's just so many aspects to this that just blows your mind and there's so much to learn and it's all ahead of you and it's exciting. It really is exciting and it's one of the best decisions I've made in my life in my adult life was to become a Freemason.

Reuben: 48:13

Brilliant. Oh, that's good. That is good to hear. I'm glad you don't have any regrets. That'll be on me, and so the future. The future's looking good, the future's bright, yeah.

Yotti: 48:29

Future's bright, future's bright, future's bright for Freemasonry we need. It'd be good to get some more initiates in. It'd be good to get a few more people coming through the doors.

Dan: 48:42

Have you travelled much? Have you, when I say travelled, visited other lodges much?

Yotti: 48:47

Yes, yes, quite a few, quite a few so far around Christchurch, which has been great. That's again. It's another to add another dimension, another aspect to it. To see how other lodges do what they do, to see the different approaches that they have, to see how you compare your lodge to others, to feel the brotherhood in another part of town of people that really don't know you, that really don't know you at all. It's always a lovely time to go and do that, so you feel the same.

Reuben: 49:25

You'd feel the same brotherly love that you did when you were up in the refractory with these other guys. When you visit them and you're like I don't know, you from Burruss Open, then you shake hands and you feel that same similar cordial love. All on the same path.

Yotti: 49:36

Absolutely, and especially for the younger masons, especially for first degrees and fellow crafts. People are excited, people are warm and welcoming and want you to do well, not just at your own lodge, at other lodges as well well, to be fair, you guys are the, the future of Freemasonry, literally the first and the second degree.

Reuben: 49:55

You guys are the, the younger ones, you are the the future of Freemasonry in this world. So we really gotta look. You know, no pressure, no pressure at all. But we also, you know, we need to understand that that is, that you are the future, and so how we treat you is how we want to treat the new future of Freemasonry. You know, it's always good to see, you know to see an initiate, a candidate, first degree. It's always good to see them because it means that we've got growth. So, from your first degree and your second degree, what stuck out in your mind the most about those two degrees? Because you've done two degrees now, which one stuck out the most and for what reason? I think I know the question. I think I know the answer.

Yotti: 50:50

Yeah, I mean the first degree stuck out the most definitely in terms of what happened on that night, but in terms of like learnings. The second degree there's some absolute gold in there. Yeah, some real, real man stuff in there. Yeah, that, yeah, that's that. Uh, the more that I read it and with the help of my mentor, who can, who can actually help me to understand a lot of the words that are in there, um, yeah, that's. I mean that stuff there should be, you know, reading for all young men, to be honest with you.

Dan: 51:31

You can always say that the second degree is about education. Really isn't it?

Reuben: 51:36

I think that is, and I think, ultimately, primarily, that's what it was. It was actually and it was. There was only ever those two degrees.

Dan: 51:43

You mean, there wasn't a third?

Reuben: 51:45

The third. The legend of the third degree came in later, much later, I think. From my little bit of research, yeah, I could be wrong. I was wrong once in the 80s, but apparently there is Tune in people. Reuben might be wrong a second time, a second time, and I could be wrong about being wrong, but there was. So, yeah, and there is something to do about that.

Reuben: 52:06

But the, the second degree, I find um is probably one of the most um informative degrees about how to become a better functioning human, and it takes a long time and and it's interesting that you did travel Yachty, because it only really hits you what you've done when you observe it, when you see it being done on someone else, because it's such a blur, you're kind of in the moment and you're like, oh, if I remember any of mine, I'm like I don't remember anything except for a very few things, and so it really helps to be able to watch someone else, and so you've had that ability to be able to watch someone else, and so would you have said that if you didn't go and visit and see that working, it would be harder for you to decipher what happened, absolutely.

Yotti: 53:01

Even for the first degree I was sitting there. I'd be sitting there at other ones thinking I'm sure this wasn't said that much.

Yotti: 53:11

I'm so sure about this, I'd almost feel guilty like where was I? Was I even there? Did this even happen to me? Was I listening? Yeah, exactly, but you need that, I really needed it, and I'm sure all young masons need to see that when you're traveling, to go and sit on the site and watch what's going on, just so you can observe what you were going through, because it's such a whirlwind, there's such a play on senses and such a mind.

Reuben: 53:38

Yeah, yeah.

Dan: 53:42

And it's funny how much the subconscious will take in as well. I mean, some of it you can take on face value and, as you say, you forget a lot of these things. But then you go and visit another lodge and something happens and you go oh that's right, You've completely forgotten about it up until that point, and then just it arises out of the subconscious and you go, ah, here it was, or you make stuff up.

Reuben: 54:11

You make it up and you go ah okay, sure, there was a goat there.

Dan: 54:18

That's for the third.

Reuben: 54:21

And so your family. They're all now at ease with you going away and doing Freemasonry. So they're at ease with you being a Freemason now because they've seen the results it's had on you. Do you think if it had any other results on you, if you'd come across being a little bit different to what you are, then there would be concerns? Yeah, I'm sure there would have been.

Yotti: 54:42

Like anything like this. Yeah, I'm sure there would have been, and I think the fact that I mean I'm not saying there's not like a night and day difference in how I am now from how I was pre-Masonry, pre-masonry, but you know, no, nothing, nothing, nothing bad's happened and if anything, the opposite's happened, and I think that's yeah, that's pretty much it.

Dan: 55:07

We're distracting you because Reuben's doing the chicken dance. Would you stop that?

Reuben: 55:12

Reuben, I can't do that, sorry. I was going to say, dan, didn't you have a point to make with regards to Yachty's fellow craft degree? A point, yeah, you had. Oh, a story. A story, I think it was a story Did you have a story, Dan, I was at your.

Dan: 55:31

That's nothing much really.

Reuben: 55:32

Oh, okay, well, carry on then.

Dan: 55:35

I was at your fellow craft degree. I remember watching you, probably a little bit nervous, as was I in my fellow craft degree, but all I could remember is how big your hands were. Let's have a look at your hands. They're big buggers.

Yotti: 55:51

That's a man's hand. That is a man's hand, that's a fellow craft Freemasons hand, right there.

Dan: 55:58

You know what they say about big hands, big gloves, big gloves. That's right. What's going on? Very big gloves. What exactly are we talking about here?

Reuben: 56:06

So going on, very big loves. What exactly are we talking about?

Yotti: 56:08

so hang on do you think that your hands have grown since being a member. I don't know.

Dan: 56:09

I'd have to talk to my missus about that.

Reuben: 56:12

I'd have to figure that I'd have to ask her what she thinks about it well, there you have it, folks hey, dan, next time you've got a story that you want to run through, could you maybe run it past me first? Make sure that we don't have any. Make sure that they're not weird questions or weird stories. There's a lot of weird.

Dan: 56:31

There's going to be a lot of weird. I mean, I'll say that now for all future episodes.

Reuben: 56:36

There's going to be plenty of weird, plenty of weird. That's pretty weird, but that's cool. That's what we're here on on the Masonic Mike, weird and wonderful, weird and wonderful. We love to have you on here. It was a brilliant time and I think we're going to wrap it up now, and so, look, we just want to say thank you very much for being here. Thank you, thank you both, welcome, and we're really going to look forward to your progression. So, thank you very much, yachty. We really appreciate you being on here, and all good luck with your masonry. Thank you very much. Thank you, brothers, thank you.

Dexter: 57:09

Thanks for listening to the Masonic Mike. The views expressed by our hosts and guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Grand Lodge or any affiliated body. Before you go, be sure to download the Masonica app to stay connected and support the show. For more Masonic resources, blogs and podcasts, remember to subscribe, like and share and until next time, stay square.