Sponsor And Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:06

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SPEAKER_02 0:42

Well, today, folks, we've got a very, very dear friend of mine who is new to Freemasonry. And I'm excited to have him on here because we've in the past we've we've had a few Masons on board, and they are of uh of grand status.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

That's right. We've had uh past masters, uh members of Grand Lodge. Grand Lodge, yep. Worshipful masters, but today we've got a fellowcraft.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, and so it's amazing to have this person

Why He Chose Freemasonry

SPEAKER_02 1:15

on. I'm very pleased to have him. And and I'd like to say hello, Yachty. How are you doing? Hi guys, very well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thanks for being on board. And so what does it mean to be so he's a new, a new uh a new Freemason.

unknown 1:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

So being a f a new Freemason, um, we've got a few questions that we'd like to ask. And first off, I'd like to say that I actually proposed you. So for the listeners who don't know, I actually know you I've known you outside of Lodge before you joined for some time, probably about five years or so. And I mentioned five years ago that I was a Mason and you sort of took that on board and that was about it. And then we didn't speak anything of it until recently, so well, recently in the last year or so, you sort of you sort of spoke to me about it. You started making questions, you know, ask asking questions about it. And from then I knew that we could then, you know, that was what you're wanting to do. So welcome again. And would you be able to um would you be able to tell our view, our listeners, as to um what made you want to become a Freemason?

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Yeah, that's a good question. Um I think a lot of it, I mean, to be honest with you, I've known about Freemasonry um and I'm sure like m quite a lot of other people out there, either from like the Simpsons or things you hear on the internet or things like you know, like that's just modern day. Just absolutely some sort of um freaky secret society. Yep. Um, you know, all I've got the birthmark, by the way. I've got the birthmark. I'd love to see that. Um but that's that was my initial that's you know, I'm sure like everybody else, that's what what I initially thought of it.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Um and then uh along came um this fellow Reuben Fisher into my life quite a few years ago. Um, and some really light conversations started. Um, and uh I was intrigued uh from the get-go, and fortunately enough for myself, um uh I had a like a font of knowledge in Reuben here um who would uh Reuben Honestly, I did not pay you to say that I wasn't paid to say that, but he is looking at me.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

But I'm gonna give it I'm gonna give you 20 bucks after this.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

He's a big, big gentleman and he's looking right at me right now. I just want to make that clear. But um no, I had Reuben Reuben um, you know, as a as a good friend of mine, uh you know, would you know answer things here and there, um, and as I know, you know, as much as he possibly could without giving away anything. And I kept probing and probing. And it took a took a few it took a few years, took a good couple of years from initial talks. Yeah. Um, and then we finally got to the point where I felt I was ready, Reuben felt I was ready uh to take the next step. And here we are today, or over a year in now.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Over a year in, yeah, amazing. And I could probably tell, you're dead right, I can tell when when you were ready and when you're not ready, if that's if I could say, you know, if I could be so bold to say myself, when I felt that you were ready. Um, yeah, there just was there was just a feeling, there was just an idea that you were ready for it. The questioning sort of came to the point where it's like, okay, now I've now finished answering all those questions, now it's time to delve in.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

And so would you say, Ruben, that uh it was the kind of questions that he was asking that Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

It's the it was the maturing, it was it was yeah, it was the type of question that had come uh after all of the other ones, so all of the general questions that normally come from someone who is not ready to okay, that's a different level of question. Okay, now that's you've got that understanding under your bolt, and then you go to the next level of questions. So because obvious obviously you've got those questions answered, so now you're ready for the next level. And I knew that was at the next level, I knew he was ready to be able to come in. And look, he's been absolutely wonderful, he's been great, he's been an attentive learner. Um and so yeah, I'm I'm very pleased, I'm very proud of having of having um initiated, well, of putting him up. Um and so what was your what would have been your first impressions of of the lodge and of the

First Impressions And Brotherhood

SPEAKER_02 5:25

fraternity as a whole? So if you can imagine from what you thought of to what you experienced coming in, that first time coming in, how's that changed?

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Is that different or uh yes, absolutely. Um coming in, coming in, I you know, you have obviously I had a good friend of mine um helping me with the process to to become involved in the lodge. Um so that kind of put my mind at ease um in terms of any, you know, any of the stereotypes that you hear about things. Um but upon entering the lodge uh and being like before initiation and after initiation, there's like night and day. Obviously, everybody's friendly. I'd come I had actually come to a refectory beforehand um for was it an installation?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, I think I think that was for an installation. Um I think that was for so installation is when new master takes over the lodge, and I think you came along to the refectory part, which for those who don't know what refectory is, it's the the dinner side of the whole of the lodge. And so the the ritual happened, the ceremony, and you weren't allowed in the ceremony, but you were allowed to come in as my visitor into the refectory, which was into the after dinner, the dinner meal. So that was your first take. Oh, tell us about that.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Yeah, it was that was great, that was lovely. It was everybody was friendly, uh, welcoming. Um, it was interesting to see um you know how the toasts are done and kind of the procedure during refectory. Yeah, um, for me it was I did I've I've had a reasonably formal um education. So sitting down at a hall, um, you know, saying grace and that kind of stuff, it's not too unfamiliar to me. So um it was really lovely to sit and be amongst that. I enjoyed that. But fast forwarding ahead after initiation, I I was completely blown away um by the brotherhood once we become a brother. Um all these strangers, all these strangers, and admittedly, uh uh, you know, we're talking a lot of people over 60 years old, a lot of people have been retired longer than I've been alive. Yeah, yeah. Um, and all of these people coming up to me, um wishing me well, wishing me good luck, welcoming me um as if I'd been part of the family the whole time. Um that blew me, that blew me away, and it still blows me away today. Yeah, how that the actual brotherhood of masonry is is outstanding. It's a big part of it, isn't it? Oh, it's um it's it's so lovely. It really is. It's it's so nice to come when we do come, even no matter what kind of day I've had on the day. I know to get into my kit and come come to lodge. I'm I feel just so much better afterwards. Yep. It's just a lovely light part of your life full of like warm, nice people that actually care about you. Yep. Um, and I just don't know where else you'd find that today, especially for young men.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

It's interesting. And it's a sincere kind of love. It's not just uh, it's not the false, you know, the false um obligated to be friendly kind of uh uh um friendly brotherhood. They're actually genuinely, genuinely sincere about that love that they've got for you, which is what I find.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

You actually see the excitement in the uh in their eyes. Oh you do?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Oh, you do.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Oh, you're back again, how you doing? Oh yeah, shaking.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

And if you're my only problem is not having enough time to be able to talk to everybody and give everybody the same amount of attention as I've given one person, because then there'll be another guy that will come on and go, Oh, I try to go talk to you as well. Oh, I don't want to talk to you as well. And then you just and then it's the night's over. So yeah, there is that, but they're genuine, they genuinely want to know about you and how you are doing. Um, and so I find that I find that as well another great thing. And so would you so your first impression was when you came to that dinner, when you came to refrectory. So then once you did your first degree, once you were once you did the first degree, what did anything change from that feeling, from that same f similar feeling that you had?

SPEAKER_04 9:32

In other words, yeah, yes, it was it it went from like polite being polite and respectful and everyone greeting you to actually feeling the love of the brotherhood, like to feel the that wave of sincerity and um you know welcomeness and inclusivity. Um that all changed. That was a huge that was an immediate change for me, like noticeable, straight out the gate. Wow. We um we want you to do well. We want you to do well. Yep. No one's trying to catch you out here. Everyone wants you to succeed in masonry and welcome to the to the journey. Yeah, and this is a lifelong journey. Um and yeah, that's it's just I can't speak highly enough

Mentorship And Feeling Ready

SPEAKER_04 10:20

of that aspect of it. It's it truly is something special.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

So that really didn't make an impression on your mind then, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

And being that Ruben was your proposer as well, he's also I guess in the position to be a mentor of yours as well. So if you had those questions, uh obviously you had plenty of questions prior to joining. But as I know, uh there's plenty of questions at all points in the Masonic career, isn't there? So Ruben would be a good person to go to, isn't he?

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Yeah. Yeah, Reuben's been Reuben's been great. Um I would I seriously he's he's really made made the journey, Masonic journey for me thus far. I think that um you know all all young initiates should have somebody of that elk to guide them. Um somebody who can answer those questions, who can just give you assurances when you're unsure, um check in on you. Um that has really made the whole thing for me, and I sincerely wish that everybody could have one of those with them.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

It just it would make it, yeah, it would definitely make it in the darkness. And because you are you're coming into it alone as a young man, you're coming into this fraternity where you hear a lot of stuff about it, and I guess having someone there like a bigger brother, essentially a big brother or a uh, you know, like a father figure or a mentor or just a uh a comrade or you know, that that that other person to help you guide you through that um because it is it is pretty scary, it is a it is pretty a daunting thing. And I mean we'll get to what your family think of it as well, and also that's another whole thing when you've got family in your ear as well. So to have somebody there with you on that journey, I think is what I think is what you're saying, isn't it, Yochtie? Is that you've got you've got someone on your side, and if things get because you can't really question sometimes you wouldn't be able to question people in the lodge, like the wish for masters and go, hey, just stop the meeting for a minute, I just want to have a little word with you. You know, it's kind of there's a time and a place. So having somebody outside of those those you know, those times is uh it's quite miserable. And yeah, I I I'd like to think that everybody does have a mentor because that's what you sh I think that that's what you really want to have. Otherwise, otherwise you'll fall off.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

I've said it before. Uh I'll say it again. Um I think mentorship is one of the biggest things in Freemasonry for me. Yeah. Uh everyone's different, of course, but uh I I I I get a lot of value out of that. Um you know, uh there's men of all ages and demographics, right? So who knows what you're gonna learn?

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Oh, yeah. It's amazing when you sit down with someone you've never really spoken to and then you start talking to and then listen to their story, and you're blown away. I'm you know, there's this gems waiting to be, you know, uh uncovered in that. So that's um so could so back to you Yachty, could you describe the process of your

Initiation As A Life Moment

SPEAKER_02 13:15

initiation and what it meant to you personally without divulging any any any so-called secrets? So what the process of initiation meant and what it meant, what did it mean to you to be initiated? Put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

Um yeah, I think that's it meant a lot. It meant a lot. Um obviously there's a little there's a a lot of caution, trepidation, isn't the unknown. Um I mean it's all unknown, actually, at the start, as you guys know.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Um even though as your mentor and I was talking to you, I actually didn't s I you know it's part of the thing not to say anything. I mean it's not that you can't.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

No, well that was it that actually made it better, actually. Not know that you know that that whole element of surprise, not knowing, yeah, right. Looking around at everybody, and you know, uh you know, um the whole thing uh you will never go through anything like that. That's one of the nights of my life.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

So you've never experienced anything like it, nothing touches it, nothing touches it, nothing comes close to it.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

That is there are moments in your life, you might get a handful, you might get ten moments in your life, and that one, yeah, that one there was is definitely up there. I remember coming home to my to my partner and just absolutely binging, buzzing, like wide awake. Yeah, yeah. She's in bed, and I'm I just uh I couldn't even have the bottom of the feet. Wake up, wake up, something like that, Dan. Something like that. And I um I just uh I can still feel the I can still feel it inside of me that so much like um happiness and light and positivity inside of me just bursting out out of me and um obviously not being able to say, not being able to say very much about what what happened on the night, but um yeah, it was the one of the nights of my life, unforgettable, absolutely unforgettable.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

So it was a visceral experience that you will never forget, and then it was and yeah, you never ever forget, and you've never had anything like it. And so it changed. Everything changed after there, did it? It was a turning point for you from being an outsider to maybe being a bit of part of, you know, part of something.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Absolutely part of something. Um, I mean, going from an as literally as going from an outsider to an insider. Right. So it was um even though there are steps along the way um after the first after that first night, you're you're I always disagree with that.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I always say you're either I don't reckon there is I reckon you there's only one one one degree in Freemasonry to me. I know that doesn't sound right, but in my opinion there is. You're either you either are a Mason or you're not, and that one is the first degree. So you you know the people go, oh, it's the Master Mason, it's the 33rd. No, you're either in or you're out. So you're uh you're at home and you're beaming. I think I actually felt you, I think I could hear you at about two in the morning still going on because I was asleep and I thought, and then you were saying to me you're still buzzing. So so you're at home, so you've got a family. So let's

Family Concerns And Transparency

SPEAKER_02 16:15

talk a little bit about that. What exact how would how have they taken Freemasonry?

SPEAKER_04 16:21

Uh that's been an interesting that's been an interesting thing. Uh my life I'm um come from I'm a Greek Cypriot family, uh quite a religious Greek Cypriot family. Um reasonably conservative upbringing. Um so it's been I was quite clear and upfront. I wasn't hiding anything. I wasn't also advertising it freely amongst the family, but I I'd worn the pin to a few events uh that drew a few comments, uh, especially from the matriarch of my family. My grand my grandmother wasn't very happy about it, which was quite interesting to me. She wasn't happy. No, she wasn't happy at all. Um and that's just because of you know, just because of you know the all the connotations associated with Freemasonry historically. Um I had a good chat with her um and kind of cleared the air with her. Um and she's kind of she's definitely come around. Again, I I'm you know, these are just her instant reactions when she saw when she saw the pen on my lapel. Um so that was an that was that was interesting. Um that's all been straightened out now, and that's uh that's all in the past. Now my partner um also she had a she had her um yeah, she had her difficulties at the start because she could see there was something going on in my life that was having a profound effect on me, um, that she was not involved in whatsoever, and I couldn't involve her. And and and also I don't know enough, I didn't know enough and I still don't know enough about it to know what to say. Like, I know a little bit more obviously now, but at the time I played it safe, I'm like, I can't really say anything to you because I'm really not sure. And I'm still not even sure what actually happened to me that night, you know. Like it just it takes such a long time to calm down from that. Um and you know, when you're involved, you know, with when you've got somebody in your life that you know you spend a lot of time with, and then all of a sudden there's something extracurricular going on that they don't have any involvement in, and that not only that, they don't really have any idea what's really going on, and they know they're not really allowed to know what's going on. There were some there were some conversations had for sure, and um luckily time as time rolls on and she sees the effect that it has on me, and also she's in the fam fam we've been to family, family like Christmas events here. She gets to see what's going on here. Uh her attitude has changed quite a lot now, which has been which has been really good.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

So would you say in the beginning it was more than a bit of FOMO, like they were like, oh, he's off doing something and we're not involved. It was more like what is this that he is doing? And they were worried about the unknown.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Absolutely. Well, my grandmother was like, This is not this is not right. Oh my grandmother's like, this is not right, you shouldn't be doing this. That was her, that was where she was coming from. And yeah, and and my partner was like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Like, what what And that's a fair question. Imagine if imagine, you know, if we if our wives come to us and said, you know, I'm going to this place once a month, you're not gonna know where it is, we're not gonna know what I'm doing, and I can't tell you, and it's gonna cost some money. Don't ask questions. I'll be the same, I'd be like, What? What is this thing you're going to? Uh, you know, if their wives can't tell us. So I guess that's when I think you rung me up, and we I had a conversation with her as well, and and we kind of tried to get our wives together to kind of nut out what exactly what exactly it is, because you're right, you didn't have enough, you didn't really know enough to say, and I didn't really know what to say. You know, what can you say to someone? Well, what is, you know, that you can openly say about it who's asking you questions. It was a very valid, a very valid concern. Um and I mean luckily that she's lucky she's she's come, well she's come around to the point where it's it's um she's got an understanding because you kind of want to include her. And I think this is part of the what the new masonry is trying to do, is we're trying to get these other, we're trying to get the families involved, we're trying to get trying to break away from having the man of the house take off once a month and then come back. I know my the story of my granddad when he would um my nana thought that he was having an affair for years because he'd jump out the window and he was going to lodge. And so she knew nothing of it. Those days I think we got we have to put them behind us and we have to somehow make lot the Freemasonry a hell of a lot more transparent if we're gonna make it because one of the one of the major sayings is you know, you've got to have your what comes first is your family, then your job, and then Freemasonry. Now, if those two things aren't sorted out the first place, the Freemasonry's gonna struggle. Yeah, yeah. And and we see this a lot with these young guys, and they've got family obligations and they want to come here. I mean, I know some of the older gentlemen, especially some one of the guys who uh proposed me, he um he had three sons and he had a wife and he was also in a in a highly high government job and he was also highly uh highly in the lodge as well, quite high up. And he said he lost his family because of the lodge, you know, and his boys hated the lodated the lodge because he was always at the lodge, and he was also had to be at the work, so it was either lodge or work for him. And he said to me, he said always, make sure that the first two are sorted, because otherwise Freemasonry will, you know, it'll it'll suffer. And so so you've managed to be able to um what curtail your family, be able to convince them otherwise, or have they just seen from the from what it's done to your to you personally? So in that respect then. Has has has Freemasonry changed your principles? And how have they changed your principles or how has it changed you as a man?

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Uh yes, I'd say it has changed my principles, and I've definitely changed as a man. Um slowly. Um there's no drastic changes, but honestly, just growth as a man um is something that's I can't pinpoint exactly I can't give you the five reasons why I've grown as a man over the last

Values Shift And Conspiracy Myths

SPEAKER_04 22:32

year. But it has happened. It has happened through spending time with brothers from like like you said, Dan, all different denominations, all different ages. People that have been retired longer than I've been alive. Um you to sit and to to have like and a tolerance is another is another huge one. There it is. I was gonna ask you. Yeah, and that's a big one. Um, and that's um there's it's all good things are coming out of this. That's actually it. Like there's all good things coming out of this thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

So you haven't seen any of the any of the negative stereotypes, you've seen none of them, the goats and all the the the sacrifices and all that kind of jazz. None of that's happened.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

None of that's happened. I I don't know if I could say this now, but I'm I'm reasonably religious man myself.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

Okay, and um I've seen none of that whatsoever. There's been nothing there that's gonna question my faith. Um, there's only like I I'll reiterate, only good things have come out of my time in Masonry. And only good only good things will follow. And the more work that I put into it, the more good things are gonna happen. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

And you would say that uh Freemasonry isn't a replacement for your religion. You're clearly still quite a religious man. Um That's right. It's it's not a replacement, is it?

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Not not at all.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Good.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

It was a concern coming in. Yep. It was, and I've been able to um within reason talk to some of the brothers about it as well, as it's come up naturally and and um it's all kind of been cleared up, and not only that, like I've just seen nothing, nothing that would give me any reason to think otherwise. So and that's and that goes as well for my family and my partner as well. They've over time they've just seen whatever things that you thought it was, it's just not happening.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

So, why do you think those things are about? What do you think though, you know, those those those um negative things? Is that just uh is it just because they want to make up stuff about something they don't know or what Yeah, I think I don't I think so.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

That's that's an interesting question. And I I have talked to a few of the older brothers about it, and I think that's yeah, I think possibly that might it might be as simple as that, is that people don't know what it is. So there's make up any old thing. Make up any old thing that might be threatened, like there could be people threatened by it.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Um I've heard some doozies. I've heard some doozies, and I've got to be honest, I when I first looked into it, I was looking forward to some of those crazy, crazy things, and not one of them, not an inkling has ever ever come true. And then I see people go, Yeah, well, you would say that. And I'm like, Well, you ought to have just said that. Because that's literally what has happened, you know. We don't have the key of the city, we're not lizards, and all this stuff. And I mean, sure, so sure there's some sort of corruptness going on, sure, on some small level, but that's the same as every other uh group of humans, you know. You get good cops, bad cops, you get, you know, and so it's um it's just interesting why Freemasonry has been the crux of so many conspiratorial theories, so that it puts off a lot of these young people and their families, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Do you have any answers to that, do you think? I do not have the answers to that. I don't know if there are. Yeah, I don't have the answers to that, but I that it is true. Like people that's what people think. People think they were out there bathing in goats' blood, um, doing all sorts of weird stuff. Um, it's all about money, it's all about business, um, you know, all satanic, all the satanic ritual and all that kind of stuff. Um I've heard, you know, I've heard quite a lot of it, and that was it's just not there, everybody. Sorry to sorry to say it.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

It's just not there. Well, I love the ones when they come back and say, well, nah, hang on a minute. You're only a fellow craft, you wouldn't know. You know, you're not high enough. Then it goes to the Master Mason.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Oh, but you're not a third.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Oh, you're not a 33rd. Well, actually, we're gonna have a 33rd on at some stage, and so he'll be able to come in and dispel all of those people who say who are not even a Mason who can say You're not a real you're not a real 33rd and all that. And look, maybe there is some club somewhere who they call themselves the Freemasons that run and do all that crazy stuff. It sure isn't uh it sure isn't any of us, anyways. But it is interesting. It's um yeah. And so how would you describe your role in the lodge as a new member? How would you describe yourself as being a new lodge member?

SPEAKER_04 27:05

Um I would describe uh myself well, I'd say my role is uh one of like modesty and like um humbleness. Um trying to learn and taking everything um as much as I possibly can. There's no pressure from anybody to learn

Learning The Craft And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_04 27:28

things, to to um to do the reading, or you know, there's no pressure from anybody. Like I said, it everybody wants you to do well, and so my role is I just feel like I'm just going with what's coming towards me, yeah, um, taking on um, taking on what people are saying, um, and and I have improved and I have grown in Freemasonry, and um that just seems to be working. There's a there's uh I try to help out as much as I can, um I be polite and respectful, and um, you know, that's that's pretty much where I see. I see, I see what I do see is that I see there's a lot ahead of me.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Are you interested in learning any charges or taking office at any time?

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Uh perhaps in the future I've done I've done I have done one charge. Oh and um That was the Lesser Lights? Yep, yeah Oh good one.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yep. It's a nice one.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Yeah, it's a nice one, nice little E1 to get me going. And that was um, yeah, that was a that was another experience. That was uh another um experience in Freemasonry for me that I won't forget. That one.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Great to know a fellow craft is doing it, and they're not sort of waiting for a master mason to do it.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

And no, I think it's brilliant, and I think there's a lot of the other um denomination, or the other the Filipinos particularly, they're they've got uh they have got their their take on how the charges should be done. Uh and so that's when we say charges, to those who don't understand, it's basically a um like a a public speech, a speech. And so I would say that that's one of the core one of the core teachings of Freemasonry is uh public speaking. And that's how it's bettering a person is by uh by having them to do public speaking because one of the biggest fears is usually public speaking. And so to make someone better uh in themselves uh addressing people, communicating in the society would be to do a charge. And so we got your yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Inoculation. Uh and so and so we had um so you've been able to do a charge, so that's great. So then that begs the question, then what are you looking for in the future? What do you think is the future for Yachty, the Freemason, regarding the lodge?

SPEAKER_04 29:53

I I uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

What would you like to see happen? Do you want to be the grand foobar? What are you what are you sort of what are you thinking? Looking back, like what looking forward, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 30:03

I want to I want to get as much knowledge as I possibly can. Knowledge. I want to learn as much as I possibly can.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Is that does that happen in the lodge? Do you think?

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Uh yes, definitely, but there's a lot of like a lot of work outside of the lodge. Like it happens in the lodge because you've got all the minds here, all the experience here.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Um, all at one place at one time. But um honestly, I think it's your whole life. You need to be living and walking. If you're living walking, if you're a living walking Freemason, like you're pretty good. You're doing you'll be you'll you'll be doing pretty good. If you're thirsty for knowledge, treating other people with kindness and respect and as brothers within, you know, within as much as you can in society. If you live by the tenets of Freemasonry as a man, society's gonna be good. And young men, young men need this stuff. Couldn't agree more. They need it. Especially now, especially the way the culture is for young men and young women, but you know, society needs strong, confident, um, respectful young men that can not lead society, lead their families. Um that's what you need. And Freemasonry is it. That that is it. And yes, it's not for everybody, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but um, like I said before, there is only good things happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

It is a peculiar system, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 31:32

It is.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Oh, where's the button? Where's the button? Where's the button? Have you got it?

SPEAKER_02 31:42

That'll do it. It is a peculiar system. Um it is very peculiar. Um and so what would be your advice is for any any newcomer, any other newcomer coming into this, what would be your advice?

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Uh keep an open mind for a start. Um come in come in um ready for something that you probably haven't experienced before. Um talk, you know, talk a lot with your mentor. Your mentor is really the one, your proposer. Um, you know, you I I would expect, you know, no pro nobody would be proposed without the person being ready for it in the first place. And obviously there are steps. There are steps um before you get to the initiation stage.

Advice For Newcomers And Who Should Wait

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Um who second you by the way? Uh Dean. Oh Dino.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Dean Dino, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yep. Yep. Yeah, we had a coffee. We had a um we had a beverage down at um the corner here. Uh we had a couple of ales down at um the old pub here, Carlton. Yeah.

unknown 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

And so yeah, Dino. And he's another one we have on board as well. We will. He's another good good rooster. Um yeah. So what would you sorry, we were about yeah, what would you what would your advice be to any of the younger?

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Yeah, just keep keeping open minds and if you want to do better in your life and if you want to do better mentally, physically, spiritually, um, if you're looking for stimulation, um, if you if you um I don't know, if you're a little bit if you I don't even know how to describe what it is until you're in it. But again, like you will be better.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

So who would you advise not to join up? Who would though who would the ones that, you know, who do you think should not join Freemasonry?

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Well, it's uh you know, I'd say people that aren't very stable in their life, either you don't have stable work going on, you don't have a stable home life, right? Uh partner or things like that, you know, I'd say it's probably, you know, it's probably might not be on one side of it it might not be for you, but then on the other side of it, you probably need it more than anybody, actually, to have that stability that that Freemasonry and to have that course correction that Freemasonry might be able to provide you.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

So that's an interesting, you know, that it's an interesting wee thing there. But I think um any young man seeking to improve himself, it's for you. If you want to talk about like going to the gym and eating properly and fasting and doing all these like cool things that are supposed to be good for your health and well-being and that kind of stuff, that's all great and and it does work, but this Freemasonry is for good, like good young men, good middle-aged men, and good older men. And um, it is for the male that's seeking to improve himself and to have a better life and to also impart the benefits of that better life to other people around him.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

And what would you say to the to the partners or to their friends of those who are wanting to become Freemasons? What would you advise them? To the partners, can you just repeat that? So, what would you say, yeah? So, to the partners of guys that are wanting to join that are saying, you know, they're they're keen to join this thing called Freemasonry, what would you advise their friends or their parents who of of the you know the guys that want to join?

SPEAKER_04 35:03

Uh I would that your son, your son, nephew, brother, whoever might be your next door neighbour, will be better. It's good for him. It's going to be good for him. If you can, if you can, um if you can follow through with what Freemasonry provides you and teaches you, that person will be better off. And then as a result, you'll be better off by being around that person. Yep. That's just facts.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Like that's the tagline is making good men better, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Well, that's the ultimate goal, I think, wasn't it? Is to make good men better. Um yeah. I mean, I've always thought it as being a what a a very, very clever help self-help self-help system. It's pretty much what you put in is what you get out. And you know, you can join and then you sort of sit on the sideline, and you know, you don't interact with these older guys who've got all this knowledge, then you don't get anything from it. You know, if you get involved in it and you start to you start to see the benefits of it, you start to get active in the community because we've got a massive community programs, there's charity, there's uh there's a charitable organization, there's so many of the of those, you know, social uh aspects of it. And if you get involved in them, you know, like like they were saying, you know, birds of a feather flock together, you know, and if you've if you lay down with dogs, you get fleas. So, you know, you are who your friends are, and if you're associating with people that are good, ultimately you think that you'd end up it'd rub off on you, wouldn't it? Yep.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

I might just jump in there for a second uh in terms of the charitable aspect of things. That's another massive or I wouldn't even say it's a misconception, it's just a total unknown for people outside of Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Really?

SPEAKER_04 36:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That was a surprise for me coming in. The whole charitable arm of Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

So you didn't you didn't realize you didn't absolutely no idea. Absolutely no idea about anything to do with Freemasonry and charities and scholarships. Wow. Um that blows me away. Yeah, and any of that kind of

Charity Work People Never Hear About

SPEAKER_04 37:00

stuff. I mean, and that flies in the face of what uh of what the um misconceptions on Freemasonry are as well. It's exact the exact opposite. It's supposed to be some like some satanic, weird, freaky society. And in actual fact, like the the the charitable arm of Freemasonry is immense and um it would surprise a lot of people to know that.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Well, it's huge, not only in New Zealand, I think it's around about thirty million dollars a year that we've sort of got, but in the States, they they donate three million dollars a day. Gosh. Three million dollars a day to charities, so it's over a billion dollars a year that United States of American Freemasons donate to charity. That's can that's bringing in that's that's considering the Shriner hospitals, because I've got hospitals that are dedicated to it. Even New Zealand, we've got um, we have the um the rest homes, uh we sponsor the Nelson's Boys and the Nelson's Girls College. We've got um, yeah, that's uh that is one of the biggest one of the biggest things. And it's interesting that you didn't know anything about that beforehand. It that blows me away.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Yeah, and I think that you know, going forward and just seeing what I've seen in the lodge in my one year, yeah, one year and a little bit being there, you know, um, it would be nice for that for that message to get out to people. Um it would be good. It would be good for the message, the the brotherhood message and the self-improvement message to get out to people, to get out to young men. They need it more more than ever in 2025. Um Dan, I'm sure you you you see you you're at you see the brunt of it in your line of work. I do indeed, yeah. And um I just think that I don't know, I'm I don't have the answer to it, but for goodness sake, like there's a lot of good things going on in these lodges that people should be knowing about and people should know about.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

I think you're right. I think that's part of the old school. The old school was just very quiet, you know, the whole silence thing was taken, you know, literally, which some of it should be, but I think they took it a little bit too far, and they don't now we need to really be more transparent about it and say, look, you know, we've got these scholarships, we've got this, we're you know, we're there to help. And I think that's what I think that's what we're trying to do. I think that's what the Freemasonry over whole was trying to actually do is become more transparent. Yeah, we're always very subtle about the work that we did. Yeah, there's a difference between doing charitable work for the sake of doing charitable working about it and bragging about it. And I think that's the other point, is we kind of don't want to just go, yeah, look, we we did it, you know. Well look at us, we're amazing. It's kind of like yeah, we kind of kinda try and keep it more a little bit more subtle. So you that's interesting that you didn't Yeah, I'm fascinated. What uh what other things didn't you know, or possibly was there anything else that you didn't realise that the Freemasons did that?

SPEAKER_04 39:48

Um I think the just the more time that I spend the more that I get surprised as to what what Freemasonry is about. Um But I think in you know definitely just the stuff that I've already mentioned about what the things that I've learned during Freemasonry. Um I I would you guys know better, you guys know better than myself. However, there must be a way to be able to communicate some of the positives of Freemasonry to the younger generations coming in. There's a big, it's a massive age difference between um, you know, between a lot of the members.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

So can we say can we say that for our listeners as to so I'm coming up to half a century. So how would how old are you then, if I can say that, Yachty?

SPEAKER_04 40:31

I'm 39 years old.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

So you're 39. So what would you reckon? And you how old are you, Dan? You're like 75? Yeah, they're about 60.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Well, at least I feel that way. You're uh but I think technically I'm 44.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

So you're 44. So yeah, so we've we're sort of the 3040s. So you'd say that we're kind of the younger?

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Absolutely. We we would be the younger ones in there, and um, there's nothing, and I've learnt so much, and I know there is so much to learn from the older brothers for sure. And that's a another aspect of Freemasonry that that surprised me is that when I'm sitting in there in the lodge or I'm at refractory, and there's 80 and 80 and 90 year old people all around me, and you're just looking around and you're thinking shivers. I think shivers

Reaching Young Men With The Message

SPEAKER_04 41:15

is what what happens if somebody falls over here? You've taken with it defibers, but um, and then you sit down and you talk to these people, and you're just absolutely blown away by how easy it is to talk, how how friendly they are, and then on top of that, the stories and the knowledge and the history um is just uh it's jaw-dropping.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Do you have a particular one in mind that you can recall at the moment that without saying any names and any stories?

SPEAKER_04 41:45

I do the outer guard, the out of guard, can I say that? I don't know if I can say that, but the outer guard is an older gentleman, must be 90 odd years old, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Oh well. We'll be a bit nice to him. I think he's probably coming up to around he's a bit younger than that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Okay, he's in his 80s. He's in his 80s. He's in his 80s, he's in his 80s, we'll say that. And um, I remember sitting outside, it's a first degree, because I can't be in there for a lot of a lot of the time. So I'm sitting outside and I'm thinking to myself, I got another first degree next to me, and he's on his phone, and then there's this 80-year-old man who's sitting there and you know, looking quite bright and that. So I decided to go up and talk to him. And I tell you what, the I what would normally be quite a boring time for me sitting outside of the lodge turned into like, oh shivers, like, do I need to go back in now? Because I was like listening to myself. You're on a second lodge. I'm talking to this old bugger right now, and he is spinning me some yarns that you just that are just like you couldn't make it up. Yeah, um, and it just blows your mind, and you don't know what or who you're talking to. But these people, like all it is, like knocking the door open, like just honestly, seeking you'll find. Just ask questions, and all the information is there, but you need to take the step, you need to go towards it. Nothing's given, like, no one's gonna give it to you, no one's holding things back from you, but you need to go and ask, go and ask some questions, and that's another that's another aspect of uh Freemasonry that's good for young men. Go and take the initial step. Take take a chance. Well said. And you know, so you and here when you take the chance, good things happen.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

So do you find that it would help the guys? Because most of the people nowadays it's all instant. Do you get that instant gratification, or is there still is there still a part of it that is, you know?

SPEAKER_04 43:32

Yeah, you do, you get the instant gratification because you take a chance in the first place. So you take a risk to go and talk to somebody in a normal situation in life that might not work out for you. So you get that gratification straight away. But what also becomes very clear to you is how vast and how long this journey is. And that's exciting. That's something that you're gonna that that's a lifelong journey and Um, I'm not, I don't think there's anything else like that out there. I know I'm I'm I'm nearly I'm turning 40 now. You know, obviously I've got my family at home, we've got a business to run. There's a lot of things that are gonna last for a long time in my life. But this year, like Freemasonry, the way that I see these 90-year-olds stand up and give like 10 minute, seems like 10 minute charges. Yep, yep. It's just um it's it's astounding.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

I don't think you ever get see you ever get tired of seeing someone do a really good charge that's about 16 pages long, and you're like, wow, you look at the guy and you go, Wow, that is amazing. I don't think that ever gets old.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

And you can see the same charge be given by several different brethren. And they all have their own little spin, whether they use their hands and gesticulate more than the other guy, or point or use use their voice to make emphasis.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Dan, it's like it's not just reading off a piece of paper. Oh, yeah. It is like, I just want to make clear to the listeners this these are 90-year-old men who are um who are animated while they're talking and keep you engaged while they're talking and using like um you know the the um tempered cadence and like oh it's just it's just amazing. And people, I'm looking around the room, and especially to like the younger Masons, like what is like what is this? Like what is actually going on here? Um just looking around in amazement, and it is inspiring and And it's a lesson, isn't it? Totally, totally who 90 years old, mate, still driving around and still giving, you know, still essentially giving a f a 10-minute speech off the calf, or uh, you know, the gentleman, the out of guard gentleman walking up, walking into a charge the night off and said he hadn't given that charge for over 40 years, again, longer than my life.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 45:58

Okay, and he steps up and needed like only a couple of corrections.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

Um, in a in a five or seven minute charge, and that just blew my mind. And it's like, how is that not good for you? How's that not good for a man? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Well, they reckon it keeps their mind sharp, and that's the thing. And by keeping it sharp, it really does. And it keeps these older gentlemen really, really sharp. And so would you like to aspire to that? Is that what something you'd like to be? Is that is that to you, is that a form of perfection? Is that where you want to be in life?

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Oh, absolutely. Um, absolutely is. But that will that can't that that's not gonna that's not around the corner.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah, I mean, you're talking about 89 years old. I mean, you know, you've got to wear to go, but that's basically what you kind of what we're kind of aspiring to. And that's what you kind of want to get out of Freemasonry, is not just the because I understand it's not just the fact that they are reading it word for word, they actually understand it. So there's a difference between, you know, reading things from the page to actually having that stuff inculcated into your persona. And so that's basically part of that teaching. That would be making you a better person if you actually understood what was on those pages and inculcated it into your own personality.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

That helped me a lot. Uh, the understanding. I had uh my mentor, who's not a bad fella, um, actually helped me out quite a lot when I needed to learn a couple of bits and pieces um for what I needed to learn. And once I had the I could learn, I could read off a piece of paper and I could learn words, okay, and memorize them.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

But once I had that layer of understanding of why I'm why I might be saying these things, what what these words actually mean, I've got a fairly decent grasp of the English language. I thought I was like pretty, pretty well educated. Um, and then I come into Freemasonry and I'm like, what what are we who what is Oh, this is the William Shakespeare of freaking of languages? It's like and that's I mean, that's another there are just so many aspects to this that is just blows your mind, and there's so much to learn, and it's all ahead of you. And it's it's exciting, it's it really is exciting, and it's I I one of the best decisions I've made in my life, in my adult life, was to become a Freemason.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Brilliant. Oh, that's good. That is good to hear. I'm glad you don't have any any any any regrets. That'll be on me. Uh and so the future. The future's looking good. The future's bright, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

Future's bright. Future is bright, future's bright for Freemasonry. We need uh we'd it'd be good to get um some more initiates in. It'd be good to get uh a few more people coming through the doors.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Have you traveled much? Have you um when I say travel, visited other lodges much?

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Yes, yes, uh quite a few, quite a few so far around Christchurch, which has been great. That's that's again, it's another to add another dimension, another aspect to it, to see how other lodges do what they do, to see um yeah, the the different approaches that they have to see how you compare your lodge to others, um, to

Visiting Lodges And Degree Takeaways

SPEAKER_04 49:10

feel you know, the brotherhood on in another part of town of people that really don't know you. Yeah, that really don't know you at all. Um, you know, that's uh it's always a lovely time to go and do that.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

So you feel the same, you you'd feel the same brotherly love that you did when you were up in the refectory with these other guys when you visit them and you're like, I don't know you from Borough Soap, and then you shake hands and you then you feel that same similar cordial love. All on the same path.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

Absolutely, and especially for the younger masons, especially for first degrees and fellow crafts, people are excited, people are warm and welcoming and want you to do well, not just at your own lodge, at other lodges as well.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Well, to be fair, you guys are the the future of Freemasonry. Literally, the first and the second degree, you guys are the younger ones, you are the the future of Freemasonry in this world. So we really gotta look, you know. No pressure. No pressure at all, but we also, you know, we you know, um, we need to understand that that is that you are the future. And so how we treat you is how we wanting to how we want to treat the new future of Freemasonry, you know. Um it's always good to see a uh you know, to see a um uh an initiate, um, a candidate at first degree. It's always good to see them because it means that we've got um we've got growth. So from your first degree and your second degree, what stuck out in your mind the most about those two degrees? Because you've done two degrees now. Which one stuck out the most and for what reason? I think I know the question. I think I know the answer.

SPEAKER_04 50:50

Yeah, I mean the the first degree stuck out the most, definitely, uh in terms of what it what happened on that night. Uh but in terms of like learning, uh the second degree there's some absolute gold in there.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

Some real real man stuff in there. Yeah. That yeah, that's that uh the more that I read it, and with the help of my mentor who can who can actually help me to understand a lot of the words that are in there. Um yeah, that's I mean that stuff there should be, you know, reading for all young men, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

You can always say that the uh second degree degree is about education, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 51:36

I think that is, and I think ultimately primarily that's what it was. It was actually and it was there was only ever those two degrees.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

You mean there wasn't a third?

SPEAKER_02 51:44

The third, the legend of the third degree came in later, much later, I think, from my little bit of research. Yeah. I could be wrong. I was wrong once in the eighties.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Oh but apparently there was tune in people, Ruben might be wrong a second time.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

A second time. Um and I could be wrong about being wrong. But there was uh there was so yeah, and there is something to do about that. But the the second degree I find um is probably one of the most um informative degrees about how to become a better functioning human. And it takes a long time, and it's interesting that you went that you did travel yachty, because it only really it only really hits you what you've done when you observe it, when you see it being done on someone else, because it's such a blur, you're kind of in the moment and you're like, Oh, you know, if I remember any of mine, I'm like, I don't remember anything except for a very few things, and so it really helps to be able to watch someone else. And so you've had that ability to be able to watch someone else. And so would you have would you have said that you if you didn't go and visit and see that working, it would be harder for you to decipher what happened? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

Right. Even even for the first degree, uh, I was sitting there, I'd be sitting there at other ones thinking, did this I'm sure this I'm sure this this wasn't said I'm so sure about this. Like this is and I almost feel guilty, like, where was I? Was I even was I even there? Did this even happen to me?

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Was that listening?

SPEAKER_04 53:19

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it is uh you need that. You need I really needed it, and I'm sure all young Masons need to see that when when you're traveling to go and sit sit on the side and watch what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Just so you can observe what you were going through, because it's such a it's such a whirlwind. There's such a play on senses and such a a mind. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

And it's funny how much the um subconscious will take in as well. I mean, you some of it you can take on face value, and as you say, you forget a lot of these things, but then you you go and visit another lodge, and something happens and you go, Oh, that's right. You've completely forgotten about it up until that point, and then just it arises and out of the subconscious, and you go, ah there it was.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Well, you make stuff up. You make it up and go, oh, oh, okay. Sure, there was a goat there. That's well the third. And so your family, they're all they're all now at ease with you going away and doing Freemasonry. So they're at ease with you being a Freemason now because they've seen the results it's had on you. Uh, do you think if if it had any other results on you, if you had come across being a little bit different to what you are, that there would be concerns? Yeah, I'm sure there would have been. Yeah, like anything.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

Yeah, I'm sure there would have been. And I think the fact that I mean, I'm not saying there's not like a night and day difference in who I am now from how I was pre-masonry, pre-pre Masonry, but you know, no, nothing, nothing, nothing bad's happened, and and if any, if anything, the opposite's happened. And and I think that's um yeah, that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

But we're um distracting you because Reuben's doing the chicken dance. He's gonna say Ruben. I can't do that, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Um I was gonna say Dan, didn't you have um didn't you have a um a point to make with regards to Yachty's fellowcraft degree? Yeah, you had you were Oh a a story. A story, I think there was a story. Did you have a story, Dan?

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Oh, was that your that's that's it's nothing much really. Oh, okay, we'll carry on then. I was at your fellowcraft degree. I remember um watching you, probably a little bit nervous, as was I in my fellow craft degree. But all I could remember

Wrap Up And Masonica Reminder

SPEAKER_01 55:46

is how big your hands were. Let's have a look at your hands. They're big buggers.

SPEAKER_04 55:51

That's uh that's a man's hand. That is a memory. Everybody, that's a man, that's a fellow craft Freemason's hand right there. Um you know what they say about big hands.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Big gloves. Big gloves, that's right. What's going on here? Big gloves.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

What exactly are we talking about hands? So hang on, do you think that your hands have grown since being a member?

SPEAKER_04 56:08

I don't know. I'd have to talk to my missus about that. I'd have to figure that out. I'd have to ask her what she thinks about it.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Well, there you have it, folks. Um Hey Dan, next time you've got a story that you wanna that you want to run through, could you put maybe run it past me first? Make sure that we don't have any make sure that they're not weird questions or weird stories. That's a lot of weird.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

There's gonna be a lot of weird. I mean, I I I'll say that now for all future episodes. There's gonna be plenty of weird.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

That's pretty weird, but that's cool. That's what we're uh that's what we're here on the um Masonic mic. Weird and wonderful. Weird and wonderful. We love to have you on here. It was a brilliant time, and I think we uh we're gonna wrap it up now. And so look, we just want to say thank you very much and for being here. Thank you. And thank you both. Yep, welcome. And um, we're really gonna look forward to your progression. So thank you very much, Yachty. We really appreciate you being on here, and um, all good luck with your masonry. Thank you very much. Thank you, brothers. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Thanks for listening to the Masonic mic. The views expressed by our hosts and guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Grand Lodge or any affiliated body. Before you go, be sure to download the Masonica app to stay connected and support the show for more Masonic resources, blogs, and podcasts. Remember to subscribe, like and share. And until next time, stay square.