Conspiracy Fears And First Research

SPEAKER_02 0:01

I researched Freemasonry because I believed it was evil. The Illuminati. It was actually the work with the Maligan Institute around CAR T cell, so it was basically cancer research. Freemasonry funded, uh, it may still fund a chair in gerontology and old prisons health and saw the Masonic villagers, and I thought, hey, these fellas actually might be okay. There was, you know, also there were certain signs and symbols, and you know, as I'm looking around the room now, you know, I'm I'm seeing them.

Tony’s Move To New Zealand

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Worshipful brother Tony Fallon. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

I'm good, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Very good. It's good to have you here. Is that an accent you've got? Straight off the bat.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah, from Invercargill.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Oh, yeah, from Invercargill.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

No, don't roll the oars enough. No, I'm Irish, as you can, as you can pick up.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

As we can pick up. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So it's good to have you here. Thank you for coming on. And so you're a Freemason. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yeah, well, uh look, first of all, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

You know, big, big time, longtime fan, first-time caller. But no, it's great. Thank you. I was delighted to get the invitation to come along. And yeah, my my journey of Freemasonry started in New Zealand. I've been here 14 years from Ireland. I am a qualified radiation therapist, though I do not do that anymore. So that used to be working in oncology. And post-earthquake, I moved to Christchurch because there was a it was a need to um, well, everyone left to go to Australia, unfortunately. Yeah, I did. So I ended up coming here, and that's how I guess came to New Zealand for six, twelve months. Wasn't New Zealand your first choice, or did you sort of followed someone here, but we won't go into that today. Um that ended within about three weeks of getting here. So I just thought, you know what? I'll just continue on the journey for a little while. And 14 years later, having bought and sold a house, I'm still here. Yep. But yeah, so I I guess Freemasonry, no family connection to Freemasonry at all. In fact, the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

So you've had a look, you've researched, obviously, and found that there is no connection. Yes, definitely no connection.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Very much the opposite. The opposite. A very devout Irish Catholic family. Yeah. Right. Um, who you know will believe the papal encyclicals and papal bulls that have come out around Freemasonry. One thing I think both you chaps have learned the time you've known me is uh I'm tad opinionated, so I have debated my family on those papal directions. But yeah, so I guess I went to university in in Dublin, Trinity College. We're blessed to have gone there. It's a lovely place. Yep. And used to walk past this building all the time. And now know that it's the headquarters and Grand Lodge of Freemasonry in Ireland.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Beautiful building, worth a small fortune today, and they own it outright, and it's very lovely. I've never set foot in it. It's always my every time I go home, I'm always only there for two or three weeks, flying holiday. So I'm hoping the end of the year to go back and do a bit more. But yeah, look, I arrived in Christchurch and lived down the road from the Ricketon lodge rooms, though again, I didn't know. It was around the corner.

Charity And Symbols Changed His View

SPEAKER_02 3:39

I researched Freemasonry because I believed it was evil. People lied for each other, the Illuminati, all the things we've heard on previous podcasts. So I thought, you know, I'll I'll do a bit of looking into this. And it was actually the work with the Maligan Institute around CAR T cell. So it was basically cancer research.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

And Freemasonry funded, it may still fund a chair in gerontology and old prisons health, and saw the Masonic Villages, and I thought, hey, these fellas actually, these might be okay. And then they might be okay. There was, you know, also there are certain signs and symbols, and you know, as I'm looking around the room now, you know, I'm I'm seeing them, and I I'd seen them for years, again in that building in Dublin and places, but I'd I guess it never made any sense to me what it was. So reached out to the the divisional guy, uh sorry, district person back then. It was actually Terry Williams. He was just finishing his term, big Terry, hands like shovels. Lovely. Um great man. When he shakes your hand, he shakes it. I have a lot of respect for him. He's in an order with me, and you know, he he really bangs the table and and gets into it. But yes, so yeah, so basically I got involved and made the application. That's how I met very worshipful brother Dave McCliskey. He put me through all my three craft degrees. I think he did all my or was at least involvement ceremony for all the Royal Arch degrees. And I'm also now in the cryptic with them as well. He's not in the chair of that, but he's again head chief cook and bottle washer in the background, keeping things moving. A number of people in that chapter would probably be offended that I've said that he's the one he's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Um for those who don't know, who are in the craft, just in the blue, you mentioned the royal arch and then the cryptogree. What are they?

Royal Arch And Beyond The Craft

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Sure. Well, look, I think without giving any secrets away, of course, but yeah, I think look, one of the things and you know, I'm driving over from home to here, it was like, you know, don't don't start standing on, you know, the pulpit and lecturing about things. But one of the things that disappoints me is when people talk about side orders, they refer to side orders as something you order with a steak. And I just think that's um it's funny, but also it's quite short-sighted. Right. Because I think one of your previous guests, I think it might have been Bob right actually, talked about, you know, why would you read the first three chapters and then stop reading?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah. Now trust me, I'm reading a book at the minute, which is bending my brain, so I'd like to throw it away. Um I'll keep reading, I'll keep reading, I'll keep reading, because it's about the whole story. But yeah, so the Royal Arch is the continuation of the six degrees in the Book of Constitution.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Okay. The Mark the Excellent and the Royal Arch degree. They're all entirely different. They're done in sort of different lodge, if you will, with a different person in the chair, different officers. It's quite entertaining.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So you've been through the chairs of the Royal Arch as well, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, yeah. So I'm a past grand steward in the craft, and I'm currently the first grand sojourner for New Zealand in the Royal Arch. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

So first off, what is a grand steward?

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yeah, sure. So grand stewards in every Grand Lodge district, if you will, there's always stewards, and one of the stewards' jobs to do is to basically, like any steward, you you get the you help the people, we call them the chain gang, but the guys with lots of high ceremonial roles and and and regalia to get them ready because they're quite heavy. So to help them get their shoulder chains of office on. Help, yeah, it's one of the roles. Also make sure everyone's there, make sure everyone for an installation, we have to take everyone off. So it's sort of a right hand person to the what's now the grand superintendent.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

But also you accompany the grand superintendent on an official visit. There always has to be two of you. And these two guys aren't smiling, but I'm very I use my hands a lot and I'm actually holding an imaginary button in my hand now. Uh when I'm talking about the role, because you you hold it and it's sort of yeah, like like a director of ceremonies, actually. You know, you in. So the rule is if the grand superintendent stands up, you stand up. If he walks, you go in behind him, you walk with him.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

So what's the regalia look like?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yeah, so the it's a real standout, the um stewards, because we're in that sort of crimson, kind of deep red colour. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I've seen you guys before a few times.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, yeah. We generally sit right up the front with our back to facing the Grand Supertent with your back to everyone else.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Um why is that? You got an answer for that?

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Or I think it's so we can watch his cues, really, I guess, or yeah, it's just really where we are, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah. Yeah. So you're like a PA. You're like a PA and an assistant, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah, we're basically like, yeah, his assistants. And if yeah. Sometimes, like, for instance, if the Scottish, because we're in Ferrymade at the moment, if the Scottish Lodge were having their installation, he's invited, there'll be two of us. Or two people will act as a steward. It doesn't have to be two stewards, it could actually be someone else comes in and company. Ideally, it's two stewards because it looks really nice when you're in your regalia in the right colour.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

And you also I have to do charges as well, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah. So, you know, one of the rules and one of my tips to people in Freemasonry is if you don't want to keep doing charges, start making mistakes. Because um you get asked to do more and more. Um yeah, look, one of the things historically has always done is the address to the wardens in an installation. So after they've been invested, which is a really lovely charge in Freemasonry, actually, to tell them their duties and what they need to do and explain. I'm not giving anything away, the columns and different things that they do. Then they go to their seats, and then it's usually a grand steward comes around and you know, stands and addresses them. And I really like doing that one because it sort of cues in it when you like you turn and and you have to address both of them. So it's like three lines to you, three lines to you. I like talking about you know, the higher sphere, or you stand to all appearances, adjusting upright, you know, all those types of things I like. I like adding a little bit to it. So yeah, I've enjoyed that role. And then two things. Uh I actually have been asked

Ceremonial Roles And Grand Steward Life

SPEAKER_02 10:20

by two people in Freemasonry ask me, What did you do wrong? And I said, What do you mean? I've done a lot of things wrong. They said, Oh, you know, you didn't progress in in Grand Lodge. And I thought, well, that's a really defeatist way or quite a negative way of looking at Freemasonry. To my knowledge, I've done nothing wrong. But no, as you'll see on my hoodie, I was back at the University of Canterbury doing a master's and MBA, and I really came out of the chair of one lodge, and then basically went to the chair in the Royal Art while I was doing this, and then I ended up balancing. So for one year I was able to go to the Blue Lodge because it was a lodge we didn't have a lectures, and then for the other order, I was able to go, just happened the way it landed on on the Tuesday rather than the Monday and what have you. So, yeah. So that's a funny thing that people ask me, yeah, did you not want to do something else?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Is there a progression from a grand steward?

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Uh not like yes and no. So it's not like automatic, maybe like it was expected in the old days. I think what Freemasonry has learned is that some people are really suited to positions of authority or to take in that leadership role, and some people might not be. There's lots of different ways. So you could be a grand steward and be an absolutely fantastic grand superintendent, or even indeed divisional, and continue the the rank. But then there's people that probably like to maybe they want to continue in a charity role or they want to do something different. There's a role for everybody in Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Um I but I think there's sort of that mentality that we think we have to continue on down this path. And that's just not the way it's not the way I think of it. Also, Grand Lodge changed, Freemasonry Zealand has changed its structure. So we've gone from more to less as well. So there's that in it. But yeah, I'm I'm happy. I'm not losing any sleep at night over it. I just think it's funny that people bring that up.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

And at the end of the day, this is just your humble opinion. It's not it isn't it isn't an official statement from any Grand Lodge or anything, remembering that these podcasts are just people's opinions. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yeah, and I've you know I have strong opinions on everything because you know, but they're my opinions. Um but yeah, that that's Grand Stewart, and then you did ask about first Grand Sojourner.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, what is that?

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yeah, so the Sojourners, there's three Sojourners in a in a uh Royal Arts chapter.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Sojourner. So what does sojourner mean? What is a word what is the word sojourner? I don't think I've ever heard it outside of lodge before. Yeah, it's a really good question. Excellent. So continue.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

I always can talk to people about sojourn like when I talk sometimes about going on a sojourn. I used to say my cat goes on a sojourn when they disappear for a while.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So it's kind of a Right, like soldiering on.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Soldiering, yeah, or sort of person that journeys between places to give messages and what have you. But there's three sojourners at the back of the room, basically, and and basically is the first sojourner you're sort of the senior one. Right. And then there's three is like the inner guard if you needed to give a title to them. Yep. And two is just a really lovely you you put some lights and candles on, and you say one thing in the opening, and if you're lucky, you only have to follow round the first sojourner when they do their ceremonial work. But yeah, as the first grand sojourner, I've only been invested. I've gone to a couple of grand chapter installations for chapters, uh, royal arts chapters. But I I've I know that when we do the next communication in Wellington, I'll well, it's hoped that I'll go up and actually help open Grand Chapter with all the people. So so yeah, and again, with that, you get asked to do things. My job is going to be acting as the second principal, I've been told. So I'll be investing, and and second principal is like a senior warden in in chapter. So I'll be doing that and invest investing, but the ritual has changed. So we're all scrambling and learning some new ritual.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Oh, that's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

So just to recap and to start back at the beginning, I just want to figure out how long have you been a Mason for?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

You know, I meant to look out Masonica before I came in here. I think 13 years, I think. I think it was 2013.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Shout out to Masonica, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, like Masonica's great, it's a great organizing thing. And I'm actually helping what's unfortunate, maybe by the time this comes out, I don't know, Unity Lodge will have handed its charter in. But it's something that's happening in the district at the minute. I'm helping as a former member of Unity, I'm helping as the honorary treasurer. So I've now realized there's a whole other facility in Missonica. If you're a secretary or a treasurer for your lodge, you get a little bit more, you get a simple list of everyone that's in your in your lodge, which you can do other ways on there. I like breaking software or breaking apps, so I've sort of trying to find my way around different ways in there. Pretty good app though. Try not to break the podcast, please. Well, I won't break the podcast. All all the shiny buttons, which makes uh Dan look like he's a member of Daft Punk. I was just wondering. Yeah, thank you. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

So you said Unity Lodge. That's your mother lodge, is it? So that's when you were first initiated.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

I was first initiated into uh Lodge Rickadin 276, um and I did my fellcraft grade in Rickidon 276, and then Cmere Lodge was moving from the hills in Cere. Right um, and we amalgamated and we made Unity 271, so we kept Cashmere's 271 number. Yeah, so I've been I was a member of that up until end of last year, and I joined a bunch of rebels called the Avon Shirley Lodge. Lodge Avon Shirley. They'll take anyone. They will, won't they, Ruben? Um kidding. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think they're rebels. I think they're a fine bunch of people. I've joined that lodge now. Ruben's there and a couple of other people.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

And no, I own 20 bucks for that.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, you do. It's happened before, actually, hasn't it? Yeah, I think with Yachty, yeah, did you ever get $20 out of Yachty for saying nice things? No. Oh yeah. Not yet. Pop around the shop, he'll do you a good deal. He always gets me one. Shout out to Theo's fishery.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, I I just know when I go in to buy, I go into the shop to buy something, and he's there, and he comes out and have a chat, and people always wonder, how do these guys know each other? But that's for us to know on them to find out.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Exactly, exactly. So you've you've been a mason for a while, and you have held grand rank and in the grand chapter. And what else, what other roles have you had then? Or is that enough?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Oh, look, I'm a glutton for punishment, people say. I think Masonry gives, you know, that cliche, you get from it what you give, or it gives back what you put in. Yeah, I fundamentally believe that though in life as well, and a lot of different ways it does. But yeah, I I I like the continuing the journey. And so with the cryptic degrees, when I was sort of asked, you know, hey, do you wanna do you want to come learn? So you've learned that we've lost these genuine secrets and you hear about them being discovered or we learn about them in the royal art. Do you want to know how they were hidden and how they were concealed? And and uh, you know, for anyone listening who is a cryptic mason, they will know that the well, my opinion, again my opinion, the degree I'm talking about, which is the second step you take, Roy Royal Master, I think. I might got that wrong, but it's the second step, is by far for me the most moving and beautiful ceremony I've ever done in Freemasonry.

Cryptic Degrees And Why They Matter

SPEAKER_00 18:28

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SPEAKER_02 19:01

There's a procession around what would have been King Solomon's Temple, or someone who is of the knowledge that they are not long for this world, and they're trying to quickly impart some some knowledge to yeah, another character.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah. I won't go into it. No, so when you say cryptic, thinking it's cryptic as in language, is it that type of cryptic as in it's very complicatedly not really. I mean, I think Or we're talking about another type of because there's two types of crypts, yeah. There's cryptic. I think you're onto something there. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

I mean, yes, I think it is. Okay. I think it's a name, really, more than anything. I'm not going to attempt to butcher it. I think if you want to learn about that, you should listen back to Brother Bob Wright's talk podcast. Okay. Um, it's a nice short, succinct one which gives a really good punch in there, and it really covers these things really well.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

What was that?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

I don't know, but I will say that a number of times I've had to look away from that door because people have been looking at me. And I've been like, that's why I've had a couple of pauses where I've gone.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

So for those who don't know what on earth he's talking about, we are in the Ferrymade.

Heritage Lodge Setting And New Orders

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Uh, what do you call it? Can you say it? Oh, sorry. So we're in the Lodge Numiniminimity. Do do do do do. Lodge Numaninity. Lodge humaninity. We're at Ferrymade.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

I think you might be saying unanimity, Sumner. There we go. Number three here.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Thank you very much. Yeah. So we're, and for those who don't know, you can actually come in and have a look through part of the building, and that is what Worship Brother Tony Fallon is talking about. So there are public walking in and out, and they can have a look at the certain parts.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Yes, it's a it's a heritage park, isn't it? It is, yes, yes. It's on one side, it's a very old-looking lodge with um with a grand door.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

But but yes, you you just to complete the the I guess my Masonic journey or what I've done, I I am also because I didn't say no quick enough to someone, I got talked into joining, I won't name them because that would be unfair, but I got talked into joining the Knights Templar.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yep. And I've met some real rogue fellas in that actually, and but that's okay. And I so that's four, and then because I don't have, you know, enough things to do and so little free time, I currently have applied to join something else which is connected, which was actually the Knights Temple of Priests, which is going to be restarting in Christchurch, hopefully, because of the great work of a very industrious and very committed Freemason.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

And we will get on their podcast at some Oh absolutely. I mean, so you've you've mentioned that there is a progression for Masons, and I think, and I think Bob Wright said that as well. But you're you're currently doing that and you're going through a lot of that journey. With regards to you being Irish and you looking at that, is there any have you have you visited a lodge in Ireland? I have not. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

No, I have try I've tried. Oh, you have? Um, but I've not been able to line it up time-wise. And yeah, I do hopefully at the end of the year go back home for a big trip.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Are there any Irish constitution lodges in New Zealand that you could go to?

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah, absolutely. So the Lodge of St. Patrick in Dunedin, I think 400 something, I don't don't call me. So there's one there. There's one definitely one in Napier, or there was one in Napier, there's some in Auckland. It's it's a possibility.

unknown 23:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

But again, it's being organized to do that. But then in the in the Knights Templar, I've met senior, but yeah, knights that have travelled up from places like Omuru and Danier have made the effort to come, and I've thought that's pretty impressive. So maybe I should make the the effort to go down there sometime and actually witness, maybe for their installation and witness it happen, because it's quite different. I know it's quite different. I've been told it's quite different, Irish Freemasonry. But I I won't get political, but you know, it's being Irish Freemasonry, it's not really it's it's not Irish like true Republican 32 County Irish. It's it's sort of Anglo-Irish from the time when that happened, but that's okay. It's when people talk about Irish Freemasonry, they think of you know shamrocks and leprechauns and is it not that? No.

unknown 23:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Sorry.

unknown 23:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

We'll have to set up another order if you want to. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

And so from where you were to where you are now, what are you currently involved in? As

Serving On Grand Lodge Governance

SPEAKER_01 24:15

in so you're no longer, you said you're a past grand steward.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Yeah, past grand steward.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

So what are you doing now?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

I'm I'm in well, I'm just enjoying my time in Avon Shirley. I'm the junior deacon. I I'm still available. So as the past grand steward doesn't end your association to to Grand Lodge. So I was asked to come along and help at an installation recently. Unfortunately, I couldn't. I was double booked. Right. Triple booked, in fact, but I just had to make a hard call. So yeah, but I if my phone rang tonight and they said, Oh, we really need you to come to XOY Lodge to do this, I'll go.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

So you would have done a lot of traveling with that to different lodges.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah, I think I was I was lucky that the it was the Canterbury District only, so it wasn't South Canber or Mid Canterbury. So now it's a larger area. But again, the team have really worked on that and they've sort of sorted out a kind of a a structure in both areas, and there's a nice bit of crossover as well to help out. But yes, so I I'm involved in that. Our chapter as well. Obviously, now a grand chapter officer, and I just enjoy Freemasonry, really. I enjoy meeting new people, so I enjoy going along to things, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

And so you you mentioned you like meeting new people. What what else is there that you really like about Freemasonry? What what did you expect when you first joined?

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Well, I don't know what to expect. I mean, my initiation was a was a real interesting evening. I'm thinking off the top of my head, there was maybe there's definitely one person that was in the room that's still coming, but I think most of the people either have dropped away or yeah, just resigned or or passed to the Grand Lodge above. So, yeah, what did I expect? I I didn't expect the first degree ceremony the way it plays out, you know. As you'll both know, it's it's a lot and when you first do it. But I guess for me, I felt a bit blind. Felt a bit blind, felt a bit lost, felt a bit uninformed, sorry. That wasn't upon intended, but it sort of happened. I guess for me as a junior deacon, or even if I was a senior deacon, when you particularly in the first degree, when you've got that candidate, something that I now do is I'm always I'd sort of do a quick brief beforehand, explain what's gonna happen in very gentle terms, and say, just listen, I'm gonna whisper to you what you need to do. Yeah, particularly when you don't know what's happening, I'm gonna tell you what's gonna happen and do lots of encouragement. And I've been getting really good feedback from the candidates at Avon Chirley about that, saying, you know, oh you you got me through that, brother. And I'm like, Well, no, you you did the hard work. I just know what it's like to be in that moment.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

It is everyone's looking at you, yeah. Particularly at the moment when you, you know, you're able to take the room in, you're like, I'm you know, scantily clad. Yeah. Uh or you certainly feel like you are, but you're not, but it really feels quite. You're very vulnerable, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah. And it's comforting to know that everyone else has gone through it as well. I think uh when I was told that it I don't know, just psychologically, um you just feel a bit more at ease.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

You do feel a bit at ease knowing that everyone else has done the silliest thing that they've ever done in their life with that you've done as well. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah, and one of the other things I'm doing, it'd be remiss of me not to mention it, because I am enjoying it, is I actually applied to and was successful in becoming director trustee of Freemasonry, the Grand Lodge of Freemasonry in New Zealand. So the board structure changed. We used to have like representatives from areas, like the South Island representative, and that's all gone now. It's it's really they're looking for directors and and people who want to step up, so they look for certain skill sets. So I'm really enjoying that. I'm a couple of meetings in.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

I'm very opinionated, as you know. So I'm offering my opinion on things and being involved in stuff like research and education on that committee and you know, audit and risk, which is something I do a lot of in my day job at Health New Zealand. So yeah, I'm really enjoying that. And it's also seeing kind of a more the helicopter view over Freemasonry to sort of understand the nuts and bolts that run in the background. And I I'm not just saying this because I'm on the board, but I would say that the people involved in those positions do an awful lot of work, and particularly our our you know national well, we know the superintendents do a lot of work, but like even divisional, up to those national lead roles in building and research education ritual, the amount of work they do behind the scenes for free, you know, is is huge, and it's what keeps the craft going. And when I see that, I gives me hope. Yeah, we need to maybe get some more people in and retain them, keep them engaged, but yeah, just huge kudos to them for the work they do.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah, you're right. It is it is their free time, yeah. And so they are giving a lot. There are a lot of gentlemen I've met over the years who they have an outstanding uh ability to be able to put everything in, and you sort of forget that when you turn up on a th on a on your on your regular meeting and you just go through the steps, not knowing that there are dozens and dozens of gentlemen who have put their whole life into this whole thing. So so that's that's great. And now you're doing the same thing though, aren't you? You're you're now dedicating your free time and you're donating your opinions and and your expertise.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

True, but I I will just be really clear that I'm on the lesser end of that. Um I'm some of the committees are are you know they take up a bit of time, but again, you meet some new people, you get some new perspectives, and you know, I was at our perk run, which I I helped organize one of the perk runs in Canterbury and Ralston, and I was like, Oh, I've seen this email and I thought, I think I know that man, I know that name. So I went along and then um I was looking at him and I went, Yep, I'm on the uh risk and audit committee with that man. Wow. He's a Freemason.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Wow, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

So I went and had a chat and he explained why he was down here, him and his wife, and you know, it was that as soon as we made that connection open, had a great chat with them. It's like the it's like you, you know, you present your you talk about presenting, you know, you shake someone's hand and they realize you're a Freemason, but when you know we communicated this, it was just like instantly had this really great conversation, whereas before they might have been a bit more guarded because I'm a complete stranger, woken up to them going like, you know, at 7 30 on a Saturday morning. Yeah, who is this guy? Who is this guy running up to us, you know? But yeah, and that's that's been nice as well. But bumping into people in airports now, and you go, oh, that's so and so.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

So you're experiencing that brotherly love.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yeah, oh absolutely. Yep, absolutely, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yeah, I think I had the similar thing. I I had the fortunate, unfortunate experience when I was when I fell ill last year, and the the compassion that came from from brethren that I didn't really realise would have you know cared so much. So that brotherly love is one of the tenets and it really shine it really shines through. That's amazing. So has Freemasonry changed your relationship with your family?

Family Faith And Identity

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Because you said that you come from a family that's well not exactly enthralled about Freemasonry. So they are they uh are they aware that you're a Freemason?

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Oh, yeah. I mean, like I talked to my mum about it, you know, I've talked to her about it, and she's aware of it, my brother's aware of it, you know. He'll either talk about less about the Simpsons and the Stonemasons, but he'll talk about the thin blue line was a comedy show in the UK, and one of the detectives is trying to get in, and there's a thing where they burst into this hall because they think there's a secret meeting happening, and he's dancing with the turkey on his head. So my brother will constantly refer to that as I think they call him the pucker masons or something in the in the episode. So he'll always say, Oh, Tony's a pucker mason. And I go, Well, so there's a little bit of that, but yeah, so the I guess the the religious side just really, I guess no more than Irish Catholic families, quite quite you know, strong to their religion. But yeah, has it affected it? Probably affected it a lot less than the fact that you know I have a male partner, that's probably a little bit harder for for the Irish family to accept. But oh well, gotta move on with it now.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Um but but it's it's interesting because you know you hear of people they say, Oh so and so, you know, he's resigned from Freemasonry because of his religion, or he's because you know, uh there's a papal and papal bull on this particular matter, and I go, interesting, interesting, yeah, it's interesting. I would love to know what part of the Bible or theological teaching that relates to. But we're not here to talk about philosophy and and theology, so I'll I'll stop there.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Maybe in a later episode or something.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah, and I mean look because it is interesting. It is interesting, and it is again just your opinion in that in that sense, and everyone does have that. So you're right. I know of guys who have been members and then have realized that they don't want to be members anymore. And look, that's fine. It's just it's as good as it's as good as a reason for anyone to do anything, and the fact that they can do what they want to do as long as it doesn't impede on me and I can do what I want to do. You know, I I personally don't have any issue with it, but some do. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yeah, it's as you say, if it's not for everybody, it's not for everybody. So some people do drop away. But it's yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting. You meet lots of interesting people.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Oh, you do, and there is bishops and priests and whatnot in within within Freemasonry, and I think I don't know. I don't know what goes on with some people, but anyway, so uh looking forward, what uh is uh next in store for Wish or Brother Tony Farn?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Look, I I'm just gonna keep keep on keeping on. I think if I just took a step back and you said to me, What's your career plan? I'd go, I don't have one. You don't have one. Coast through life, really. I always have. Um I mean I've got a very denominated clinical degree. I don't use any more doing okay for myself. I've sort of continued on different ways. I think at Freemasonry, it's if it's for you, it won't pass you by. Like if it's the right time, I do really believe that things present themselves. So, like for instance, I've been asked to join at least three other, maybe four other things in Freemasonry, and I've said no, it's either not the right time or I'm not interested. And then that little chestnut of, oh, it's only four times a year. Yes, but I'm also going to Wellington for board meetings, and I've got my work and I've got to spend time with my my partner and their family. And I'm also trying to get my running and road biking career back back moving from you know giving up two years of going to when I say career, I mean just actually getting back into it. I used to live and breathe running.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Who were you running from?

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I was running for myself, really. My thoughts. Um, yeah, or remembering what I did back in you know 1997 in in fifth class when I dropped something, yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Running, wow, okay. So long distance running, you're talking about? Oh, look, just any any running. Running. Yeah, okay, wow. Okay. So you haven't got your eyes set on anything particular, like the becoming a most worshipful ruling.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

So this like my opinion. I think if someone sat here today and said to you, Yes, I want to be, I am going to be the Grandmaster, I'd go. You definitely shouldn't be then. Let's just have a discussion about your motives there. Sure. I think yeah, as I say, things happen for a reason, and if you're the right person for something, you'll be approached. And yeah, so no, I wouldn't be as egotistical to say I'm going to be the most excellent or the head of the order of such a thing. Yeah. Because yeah. I mean, if it happens, it happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

But I wouldn't set out to say I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I think if I most most masons are of that same opinion, they kind of they'll do it, but it's a lot of work and it's a big responsibility. So they're kind of a little bit tentative, and you know, that you do there is there is that lack of ego for wanting to become you know something something so regarded to regarded as having such a grandness about them.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

I I

Building A Kinder Lodge Culture

SPEAKER_02 37:48

think if one thing I would like to see in the opinion is yeah, and it is my opinion, but I mean, look, over the years I've encountered, you know, I sound like I've been involved for like 50 years, but you know, in the time I've been involved, I've seen some really poor behavior. Either just people are very opinionated or are acting on hearsay. You know, I've yeah, we we won't go into the detail of it, but I've seen some, you know, kind of attitudes, and I've thought, really, you standing up in front of everyone and expressing an opinion, you don't have the full information, and you've sort of almost defamed somebody by actually saying that, and I just think that's really not very good. But also something I'd like to see less of is the our young people, younger masons deliver a charge, and someone bursts over to say, You left the fourth word out on the third page, and you know, that is so important, and you go, Is it?

SPEAKER_03 38:44

You know, uh I remember they will re-read the the ri ritual later on, won't they?

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Yeah, I mean it's but I think it's uh I'm not saying we should completely change our ritual, but I think if someone's just delivered a charge and it's you know it's a pretty meaty charge and they've left out maybe a sentence or they've left out something like, and it's you know, it's not pivotal, exactly. Then let's not come down top of them like a ton of bricks. Let's just sort of work with them because I remember being in a situation, reasons for preparation in the first degree. I can recite that in my sleep. I've done it so many times over the years, and I do it slight differently. And I add the actual when they talk about the scripture, I actually add those lines in. So I've sort of just wanted to for me, I was oh, I've got to do something different because I'm just this formulaic over and over. And what I remember one night when I was doing this, I in in lodge I left out words and you know, that is to say, and that's just you know, you talk about three things and you say that is to say of my own free will and accord, la la la. And I'll keep the the language very general for the general public, but someone turned around and said, Oh, you know, I can't believe you always leave those out, you're always leaving those out. And I turned on my heel and I said, This is the first time hearing of it. I've delivered this charge about 10 times now in open lodge. So there's a way to communicate things. And if I didn't know that, then can you correct something that you don't know? Exactly. It could have been something, you know, along the lines of really great, but you know, there's those words in the middle that is sort of adds to it, you know, you've listed out three things, and then you say that is to say, and it also gives you that opportunity to sort of pause and go, what's the next line? What am I saying next? And continue on. But yeah, I mean, that's a very personal example. But I think I'd just like to say a more inclusive craft. I think we're on that way. I don't think there's much of that. I've certainly seen an improvement in the time I've been around. But one of the things I guess is a if people look to me as a worshipful master, I'm always referred to as a senior brother in lodges or people invite me my opinion on things. Yeah, I'd like to say I'm gonna use that from opportunity, and I'm gonna say, you know, we should be more supportive and we should show people down because yeah, I mean, there's a lot going on right now in the world, and there's a lot of things you could be doing. Now, don't get me wrong, there's nights when I have to go to a lodge and I don't know the charge very well, and I'm thinking, oh, I'd really love to just stay home and do X or Y. But hey, I go out, meet some people, and if I get misaligned in the charge, someone will prompt me and I'll be straight back onto it again.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

So yeah. So I guess what you're saying is that rather than get caught up in the syantics of of or or the wording, it's really the meaning is what you're trying to convey. If you could just relax a bit and go, look, we're not word perfect, we're not as long as as long as the experience and the true meaning of the experience is conveyed, then you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

I think we should always try and get the ritual perfect. Sure. Definitely work towards it. But I think, yeah, there's ways of communicating if someone isn't landing that.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Well we're all only human, aren't we? So we're bound to make mistakes, and we have to make mistakes because that's how we learn.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

I'm a lizard.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Are you?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Yeah, apparently. On on the flip side as well, though, I do think we need to be brave. So I'm gonna the other side, you know, there's we all might know someone in a in a in a lodge or chapter that wants to do every charge and wants to do every position and wants to do everything. And you know, sometimes we have to just step up as leaders and have that conversation, like you would with an employee or or colleague, and say, you know, I think you should focus on this and do this like really well. And also you should probably take maybe some of the best positions in the lodge where you're gonna be in the middle of all the activity.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Well, that would be somebody like a manager who can oversee and see the employees and put them in the positions of where they shine the most and where they are the the gonna make the rest of the team shine. So yeah, and I think you're right. I think we do need to have those communications the from I guess what I'm trying to say would be it's a generational thing as well, possibly. There is a large generational gap, and so the communication styles are very different in the sense that you know someone who's 82 is gonna communicate differently to a 20-year-old. And so maybe if we were to I don't know, maybe work out how to get better communication.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Yeah, I would agree. Um, yes. You're very wise, Reuben.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

That's another 20 bucks. So the future.

Advice For Joining Without Rushing

SPEAKER_01 43:42

And so the future, you're just letting it come. So what would you say to anyone who is wanting to become a Freemason? What would be your pearls of wisdom to them?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Don't do it. No, quite The opposite, actually. Uh, I would say do some research. Right. I feel I'm gonna sound like I've been paid to talk about past episodes, but really I've listened to them quite recently as well. Again, to prepare. But when you talked to Brother Yachty, you talked to him about kind of the process he went through. So you were his mentors, I can buy another $20, sorry. Um, but no, you went through that process with him and you sort of were were ready. And that's great that he had that experience. But if I'm thinking for me, I applied and I met with two gentlemen who I still know today in a cafe, and we had a chat and explained a bit about it. And they couldn't bring me down to the Rickton Lodge room. They said, Oh, we can't, because St. Augustine is set up at the moment. That was that didn't mean anything to me. It was the Royal Arch, it was a Monday, so the Royal Arch was set up, ready to go. So they couldn't bring me in because I would be like, What's all this? Yeah, what are all these pictures? Why is there spears everywhere? Anyway. But yes, so it I guess for me, I would say, you know, do some research, but don't do too much research. Because I can as in, you can go down the line. There's a a website registered in the Netherlands that has all the ritual for apparently every Masonic order on there, and some of it's Americanized and very wrong. Or it's you know, the Grand Orient of Freemasonry in in France or the Netherlands, the way they do it, you know, because if you went to see, I met a brother from Sweden once and he explained some of the three craft degrees to me, and they were so differently done.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 45:33

To how they were done in New Zealand. And I thought, wow, you know, if if you were looking at that, and then you you went into a lodge in, I don't know, Unanimity Sumner, you popped into this lodge room for your first degree, and you were expecting it to be like that, it'll be very different.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

So so there's that. So I guess there's don't do too much research, but do enough to understand the tenets of Freemasonry. And then there should be a really good like lean into the lodge a little bit. So come to the refractory, try and meet some people. It can feel a bit like it's a it's a block, maybe, that you've been put through these tests. Because I I don't know when I guess one of my things I would do differently. When I was the master at Unity, I did it three times in four years actually. One of the one of the things was we, I guess we readily accepted people very quickly, and that was a mistake. I think we how many of those people do we see today? I'd say 50%, and that's a very poor strike rate. The other 50 have either stopped coming or some have moved other places. They're still interested, they're just they're way working places, and some have just completely left the craft because they were sort of rushed in, realized it wasn't for them, and then they left. So there's I guess there's a a lesson in that for me that if I was ever in the chair again or in the ear of a worshipful master, I'd say, just take your time bringing people in.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

So is it on to is that onus on the lodge to put the brakes on, or is it on the the guy wanting to come in?

SPEAKER_02 47:10

I think the guy wanting to come in won't know. So it's really on the lodge to have good lodge management and to know that. I'm not saying we should do, you know, some jurisdictions around the world, you know, it can be three or four years before you're allowed in the door and you have to work in the refractory or something. Yeah, not saying that. But I guess if I meet you today and I very quickly get you to sign a piece of paper because my lodge meetings tonight, so I can read it out for the first reading, silly. Like you don't know that person.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Because when you get an initiation, when you get the lust for intending candidate or whatever it's called, and you see, I've known them for three weeks, you go, how could you know this person three weeks? I mean it it happens, yeah, it happens, but I guess, yeah, going through a good process. So I've sort of twisted the question and gone in so many different directions. That's right. But I think there's there's the there's the research side of it, there's the onus on the lodge to run a good process and to introduce you. I think of the, you know, looking at you, Ruben, because you know, you are in Aving Shirley as well, but I think of some of the degrees we've done recently for people that have come in and the process they've gone through. And we've got one on that's coming week, I think we're meeting someone as potential candidate. Um and that's really quite fantastic to know the lodge goes to that degree of I guess introduction. And I see the contributions those members are making, or they're coming, they're turning up.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

You did right. And we've we've spoken about it before how they how you can rush through these degrees. I certainly did mine one month initiated, second month, third month, I was a master. And I said to myself, how can I be a master of anything in three months? Yeah, can't. And I actually I wish that I had in retrospect had taken a lot more time in between to actually absorb what was going on. You know, I mean, I've I was initiated raised 20 odd years ago, and I've only just now started to really understand. So, you know, there is there is a length of time that I think we should get to know the know these guys before they you're right, before they come in in the next minute. Oh, by the way, you're you're you're the leader. It's like, well, hang on a minute, I've just came in the door.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Or two other things quickly. Sorry, I do tend to talk on, but I think someone gets their third degree, and bam, they're anything other than a steward is wrong. Steward's okay. Yeah, make them a steward, explain clearly what that is. They don't know about osmosis that they're meant to stand up, well, at least in Unity, they were meant to stand up on the second time arising and ask to go to prepare the refractory, and then growling at them because they didn't do it. Anyway, um I'll I'll move on from that one. Or or I think also the other thing is if I haven't seen you, Dan, in in a lodge for you know two years and eventually get you to come back for whatever reason you weren't coming, and you come in and someone goes, Oh, brilliant, Dan's here, we'll put him in the junior deacon's chair. No, yeah, I've seen that happen, and the person's never come back again because they they were so embarrassed. Even if they had a book, they were knowing I'm sitting here with my book and I'm the only one that has a book out, and that's quite, you know, it's it's not cool. Yeah, cool. So I I really dislike when I see that happen too. And in fact, in one occasion, as a visitor, I've gone, I'll do that. Because I'm like, no, I could see the person was about to melt. I was like, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Well, you did write, and that is one of the scariest things is public speaking, and having been away from it for a while and then come back into it, and then all of a sudden, like you say, getting, oh, by the way, you've got this charge that you can just you know rattle off in front of all these gentlemen you haven't seen for a while. It is very scary, and it is and and that's not the right environment. We're supposed to be brothers, right? And so we're supposed to have each other's back and not embarrass them emotionally and make them feel feel small. And you're dead right. I've been to, you know, I've I've been in similar situations where I've I've seen people come in and then they go away. And I think it's purely because of that pressure. There's a lot of pressure for us to perform, and public speaking is one of those ones that just is top of the list.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

And so we must make them feel more comfortable, I guess would be the way. And again, it comes down to communication. If you know that person, uh, you know, if you've known them for a long time, then you'll know how they operate, how they work, what their buttons are. If but if you've known someone for you know three days, and then next minute you're expecting them to come in all dressed up and then talking in front of a whole room full of strangers, you know, you it's it's a hard task. So I guess maybe somewhere in between what other constitutions and other countries do, which is a lengthy time, and between what we're doing now, which is when can you get in quick enough, somewhere in between that would be kind of like a nice medium, is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, right. Okay. I mean, is there anything else that you'd write that you'd like to that you'd like to let our listeners know, particularly about your Freemasonic journey?

SPEAKER_02 52:28

I've really enjoyed it, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

I haven't joined anything. Someone listening might go, he's in five, there were four things, five things. That's crazy. It was the right time. I feel it was the right time, and I've enjoyed it. I take my hat off to the people in ten and eleven orders in Freemasonry. I met a man recently who some listeners will know I'm talking about that, you know, goes overseas for an order because he really wanted to be in this order, and I take my hat off to him. I think that's really amazing and yeah, really, really quite something.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

We've been waved it. We're having a someone waving. Yes. So I guess yeah, it's it's it's felt the right time for me, and the connections I've made from Freemasonry are huge, and that's personal connections, not from uh, you know, the other thing people believe it's a business thing, and we're all handing money to each other. Well, can you read me in if we are? Because it'd be really cool to know about that. Well, hang on a minute.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Um you guys had some sort of situation where you're giving him twenty dollars. What's that all about?

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Yeah, that was only twenty dollars. Oh dollars, I thought it was twenty Turkish lira, which is like half a cent, uh probably even less. Well, sorry, mate.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

But no, I think I'm not in that order, sorry. Yeah, I'm not I haven't got to that degree yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

Yeah, the special order of the water bottle, yeah. You'll get there one day. But no, I've enjoyed it. It's been the right time to join things. I met some real, real great people, and then they pop up in different places. Like I'm at work and I keep seeing this person's name. And while I was searching for one of a brother that was at Unity but hasn't been at Unity, I was trying to work out where what Lodgy joined on Masonica on the search, this person's name popped up because it's somewhat similar. And I went, Oh, no way. But I'll just keep that in the back of my mind. That's not someone I know well enough to go, oh hey, I found out you're a brother. It's probably not the way to approach it. But if it came up naturally, it'd be good to know that that person is a is a Freemason.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah, yeah, and and and things do happen naturally sometimes, they you'll say something or they'll say something to you, and then all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Yeah, I've I've had that in a very early stage as a Freemason, and I someone used the term morally perjured individual. And I thought, whoa, that's a very unique term. Yeah, very particular. It's very niche. So making coffee in the kitchen, I said, Oh, I greet you well. Face lit up. He said, interesting. And all the times I've used that in a meeting, in all my years in a consulting role, I've only ever had two people pick up on it and followed through. And he said, I guess there was only ever two Masons in the room. Wow. And I thought, well, maybe they were thinking, oh no, I'm not meant to say anything. But yeah. So you do, you bump into people.

unknown 55:23

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Okay, so if if we had any hold on, I'm just reading, I'm just reading the question here.

One Message To Remember

SPEAKER_01 55:33

If every listener remembered one message from today's episode, what would you want it to be?

SPEAKER_02 55:39

Oh, I think I've talked around the houses, but I'd say it's probably the one thing from what I said would be around being nicer, being more encouraging and welcoming to our newer brethren. Particularly if someone's first language or even their second language isn't English, and they're really trying, you know. If they're not repeating the obligation properly, then it's sort of on you to work out. I know for me, I'm speaking in an Irish Kiwi-esque kind of brogue, and I'm, you know, using old English words in some cases. And if I have in the case of one of our members, David Shirley, who's Brazilian, you know, they they might not frame to pronounce things a certain way. Yep. That's a link to something about framing to pronounce something as well. Masonry. Extra points if you pick that up on the second degree tracing board. Anyway, never mind. No, I'm just it's just something that's always um stuck in my mind, and I think it's actually the way Unity used to do it. But anyway, we should probably cut that out. But yes, I've really I think it's just been nice to people and being more accepting and welcome people and to understand that they might not have been on the same journey as you, and you might have had you know all these years and all this time to focus on this, and maybe, you know, they they have a full-time job and a family and and all these things, so they haven't been going to lodge six days a week like you were in the eighties and nineties.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

It is a different, it is a different time. It's a different time. Absolutely, yeah. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

Sort of echoes Bob Wright's sentiments about Freemasonry being a leisure time activity as well.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

So some people do see it like that. They do that they want to go to lodge and enjoy it. They don't want to be growled at every five minutes for missing a comma and a charge or something.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Well, unless you're sadist, you don't really like to you wouldn't like that, would you? I don't I don't like well, you want to go to something that is fun because it is your free time, it's your leisure time, and this is supposed to be an experience that's supposed to enrich you, it's not supposed to belittle you, and it's not supposed to embarrass you. Those things you get that at home.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

Meant to make you better.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Well,

How To Support The Show

SPEAKER_01 58:01

look, it has been wonderful to have you on, Wishable Brother Tony Fallon. I have thoroughly enjoyed it, and I owe you about $40 now for all those wonderful things you've said about me. Look, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being on this on this podcast, and we will love to have you on again, and we'd love to see where you are in the future. You say that you've just let things come to you, so I'm sure things are going to come to you over time, and yeah, we look forward to that as well.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

Look forward to seeing you in Lodge. Thank you very much. Look forward to seeing you both too. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

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